Cedars, I would have liked your post to have been coupled with jgnat`s post of the descending worth of the chairs .
smiddy
A picture so outrageous, it deserves its own thread...
by cedars 184 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cedars
alanv
I would say Cedars I do apologise to you for calling you paranoid. That was uncalled for and I didn't think it through. I have tremendous respect for anyone that can write clearly and concisely and your blogs do that.
No worries mate. I'm glad we can agree to disagree.
DavePerez
BTW, the irony is most of us (me included) probably didn't give JW theology as much thought while we were in, LOL!
You never were "in." You left as a teenager - remember? At least, that's what you told us under your King Solomon incarnation.
smiddy
Cedars, I would have liked your post to have been coupled with jgnat`s post of the descending worth of the chairs .
Yes, the chairs are interesting! I commented on those on page 1.
Cedars
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prologos
The picture is realistic.-- Out standing in size, in close perspective are the "Publishers"* frontline workers. still using paper material ( still the future in the developing world ?). The lady is carrying the stuff as is the case in those parts. The kindom hall# chairs are not too comfortable either (too keep everyone awake)
lastly, The true reality of the Creator-God question is still sealed from us by a thick layer of safety glass. One translation calls this layer in EZEK 1:22 the "FIRMAMENT".
The creator ( if he will be proven) is firmly separated from the going - ons below. He is not jerking around with the movement of the chariot. But obviously can observe.
many here in this forum grapple with the ultimate question beyond this barrier, for there is a big disconnect from the 6 tiers organized and the 2 tiers of the fleeced that jw were/are involved in.
*if this is a public forum, then the only real "publishers" are here publishing and not out selling papers.
#supposed brothers and sisters.
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rip van winkle
Cedars- On the right hand of Jehovah, isn't Jesus depicted sitting next to Jehovah? That's what I see. No one else can see Jesus?
I SEE JESUS!!!
( I still cannot HEAR him or eloHIM but I SEE him!!!)
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konceptual99
Just caught up with this thread so sorry if I am missing lots of the discussion.
There is no doubt that the society include lots of little details in pictures and want the R&F to read things into them. The R&F love doing it as well, going into in immense detail at each meeting. There was a picture a while back of Noah going over the plans for the Ark with his sons with the Nephilim dragging women around by the hair in the background. One of the sons was looking out at the violence but Noah was rebuking him as they had more important things to think about. Lots of explicit and implicit messages there about how Witnesses should ignore the obvious plight of people to concentrate on placing pamphlets but anyway...
It's certainly odd that Jesus is not pictured but I think it's just showing that the earthly org follows the chariot and that's it. I don't think there are any hidden messages in what type of chairs are being used.
It certainly reinforces the hierarchical nature of the org but everyone knows that already. No big news there.
What it also does however is betray the real thinking of the GB and those in the upper echelons of the society. As has been pointed out, the organisation that should be important to any JW is the spiritual one based on Jesus being a mediator for all and the 144,000 being the spiritual bride of Jehovah. That image, with Jesus, looks ALOT different.
Sure, you can argue you need a corporate style organisation to publish literature, organise the preaching, shepherd the congregation and so on but that is a heck of lot different to the organisation described in the Bible.
It's this message that shouts itself out to me but will never be heard by 99% of the JWs who study this article. They don't want to hear.
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alanv
The more I look at this pic, the more I do wander what has happened to Jesus. As I said before the other things mentioned are fairly minor points, but yes why no Jesus? I guess it could be why the elders are attending classes in Feb. Something big happening to 1914 and/or Jesus position as king maybe still to be in the future. This will be interesting to see how this pans out.
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rip van winkle
JESUS IS IN THE PICTURE!!! I SEE HIM IN THE PICTURE!!! LOOK AGAIN!!!
JESUS IS IN THE PICTURE!!!
I SEE HIM!!! HE IS THERE!!! LOOK!!!
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konceptual99
Hey Alan,
Is there a meeting in Feb? They have just had one over Christmas? Is this another one or just different dates?
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punkofnice
I notice the angel (C T Russel or Jesus?) is slightly lower than the GB.
I remember when I was a mind cleansed(TM) JW and all for the organization, the constant praising of the 'faithful slave'(TM) irritated me. Although it irritated me I convinced myself it was god's will. Now I know better!!
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AnnOMaly
EdenOne (from p.1):
The absence of Jesus in that picture is mind boggling. Besides, he can't be any of those angels, because otherwise he would be depicted with a crown, as King, in line with the teaching that Jesus was made King in 1914.
UNLESS ... they are preparing the ground for changing that teaching, and Jesus isn't YET King....
Funny you should mention that.
There's an odd comment slipped into par. 7, p. 24:
Jehovah wanted Daniel to see that His organization is in motion, accomplishing His purpose. Daniel also saw "someone like a son of man," Jesus, being given oversight of the earthly part of Jehovah's organization. Christ's perfect rule does not exist for just a few short years. Rather, it is "an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin." (Dan. 7:13, 14)
Immediate questions:
When, traditionally (as far as JWs go), did this happen?
Wasn't Jesus given authority over heaven and earth - not just earth?
w91 8/1 p. 11 "The Light Has Come Into the World"
"Head Over All Things"
11 After his resurrection, Jesus revealed to his followers another facet of the light. He said: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." (Matthew 28:18) Jesus was thus being elevated to a preeminent position in Jehovah's universal organization. Paul gives further details when he says: "[God] raised [Jesus] up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in this system of things, but also in that to come. He also subjected all things under his feet, and made him head over all things to the congregation, which is his body." (Ephesians 1:20-23; Philippians 2:9-11) Since 33 C.E., loving the light has included acknowledging this lofty position of Jesus.
w79 3/1 p. 15 par. 14 (the infamous) Faith in Jehovah's Victorious Organization
As a result of their [first century Christians'] faithful witness work and their baptizing new disciples, congregations sprang up both inside and outside the far-flung Roman Empire. Nevertheless, they all constituted one visible organization under Jesus Christ, worshiping the Great Theocrat, Jehovah.
But as for the events of Dan. 7:
Daniel's Prophecy, chap. 9 p. 146 par. 37 Who Will Rule the World?
When "the appointed times of the nations" ended in 1914 C.E., Jesus Christ, as David's royal heir, could rightfully receive Kingdom rule. Daniel's prophetic record reads: "To him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin." (Daniel 7:14) Thus the Messianic Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914.
Which is it? Are they now suggesting that Jesus was not given oversight over the earthly part of Jehovah's organization until 1914?
So back to the picture. Who's sitting on the throne? Is it supposed to be Jesus (where's Jehovah?)? Or if Ezekiel's celestial chariot is being portrayed (linking it with the pic on p. 24), is it supposed to be Jehovah, in which case, where is Jesus?
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LOL at the chairs! I'm surprised the artist didn't have the publishers sitting on hard wooden benches ... or the floor!