If Jehovah Can Read Hearts Then WHY

by BlindersOff1 301 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • mP
    mP

    MP:

    here are the sayings against slavery ? WJhy on earth would he tell stories, parables and directly tell slaves he encounters to basically shutup and be obedient aand yet never condemn slavery ?

    TEC

    This conversation, you and I have had, in detail. I started a thread about it, remember? I will grab the link... brb...

    mP:

    Im going off the top of my head, so i might have it wrong, but i recall you basically answered with your love everyone/neighnpur scripture and thats it. You never attempted to reply about the many many scriptures where Jesus tells slaves to shutup and be good to their masters. If anyone told you the same message today you would critize them to hell. Imagine telling a kid being raped by a priest to shut up and not complain. Thats utterly disgusting and wrong. Shame on you and jesus for not spending 10 words and saying slavery and pedophilia is wrong.

  • tec
    tec

    Im not sure i understand but that sounds completely dumb. I think your saying this proverb by JC is a test to see just how good people are. Thats utterly crazy, the people who need real rules are the aresholes in socieety. Jesus failure in this case created the misery that

    was xianity for 2000 years.

    If you are not sure you understand, then how can you make a statement about it? I said nothing about a test... but simply said that what people do (including what they twist to suit their own desires) reveals what is in them.

    Who is "HE" ? Are we talking abotu ejesus or jehovah or both ?

    I was speaking of Christ.

    Given both helped create the universe surely asking them to give us an acccurate uncorrupted Bible is not too much. Any less and they look incompetant.

    Why? The written word is limited; imperfect; 'incompetent'.

    Why would God have to rely upon a form of communication that is lacking? WE are the ones who do that... because WE are lacking... in FAITH. So as to be led, and taught, in spirit, by the Spirit of Truth (Christ)

    So we are given something to make allowance for us. Like the law on divorce sort of thing.

    Firstly this was a one off commandment to some apostles at that moment. It was not a general law to follow. I would have thought that was obvious. Anyone who didnt follow Jesus around the country side could rightly say Jesus never told me to do anything like that

    towards helping the poor.

    So the other examples I listed, and all of the things that Christ did... feeding, healing, giving, telling people that what they did for the poor, or the hungry, they did for Him. You'll just sweep those under the rug. Because it does not fall into line with what you want to believe.

    And yeah... anyone who knew nothing of Christ could say he never told me that. What is your point in that? If He was giving to the poor all over teh countryside, then his actions would be known, as much or more than his words. Obviously people knew about it, or it would not have been recorded to begin with.

    You are 'justifying' what you want to believe.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • tec
    tec

    the many many scriptures where Jesus tells slaves to shutup and be good to their masters.

    Might you list these many, many scriptures that have Him telling slaves to shut up and be good to their masters? (surely, you have not put your own spin on something, right? It will say just that, right? Because you have accused Aguest and me and all christians of their dishonesty, for doing such things. Surely you are not doing the very thing that you are accusing others of having done?)

    Peace,

    tammy

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    mP: -> AGUEST Please add my nick in front of my saying when you quote me so its obvious who says what

    Sorry, but I have my own style, mp, which I've been using for over a decade now. Rather than use a "nick" I simply put what you say in a quote box. I realize that you are relatively new to the forum, but your post count indicates you're here quite a bit so perhaps you might consider taking a moment and trying some of the functions built into the board? To quote you can do two things: 1. Highlight the text you want to quote, click on the little arrow next to the "Styles" drop down box, and choose "quote" (Note, there are some bugs in the function so you want to try to have a blank line at the end of the highlight - one full blank after the text and include that in the highlight. Sometimes the entire text ends up in the quote box (like above), sometimes it breaks up by sentence. I hate the broken up result, so I highlight, click "Styles" to turn it off and then highlight and click on "quote" again. I keep doing this until it's all in one box. OR, you can... 2. Highlight the text you want to quote and click the little " icon in the second toolbar. You should probably put quotes at the beginning and end of the text here. I digress.

    And the fact he rewards someone who offers and performs human sacrifice is well completely ignored by you.

    Where is the REWARD? Please... show me. STOP looking through your WTBTS-trained "eyes"... and SEE God. You ASSUME that Jephthah defeated Ammon as a result of his vow. If you read the account, though, you will see that Ammon had ALREADY been delivered to Jephthah; all of his sons had been defeated and he was the only one left. There was NO reason for him NOT to win. So his vow... was MOOT. You, though, can't seem to grasp the POINT of the account. I want to say that that's because you are blinded by the WTBTS on the matter, but that's not really the reason. It is because you are blinded by your anger. So angry... and so blinded by it... that you cannot see that you're blaming the wrong person. But that is how it must be: JAH examines the heart... and this account only reveals what's in yours. IF, though, you could give the MOST Holy One of Israel the benefit of the doubt... perhaps try to see Him by looking at His Son... and asking yourself, where, if at all, would the HOLY One of Israel (whom you call "Jesus") have fit into this account? I promise you, you won't "see" in it, at all. And, if you can't see HIM in it... then there's no way you can truthfully see God in it. Because if Christ isn't there... JAH isn't there.

    Strange why he helped Jepthath and at no stage rebukes him or make it clear in the scripture that human sacrifice is wrong.

    Strange that you take the writings of men and assume that every single detail, every word, every utterance, by every person TO every person in the account would even be there. Strange that you don't consider that perhaps the lesson isn't SUPPOSED to be there... because YOU are supposed to use your LOVE... of God... to REASON OUT what actually took place. Strange that you are going on as if you KNOW the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... so as to say what He did... and did not do... in this instance... yet, can't "understand" Him. It doesn't make SENSE to you, mp... based on what you THINK God should be "like"... because it doesn't DEPICT what God IS like.

    Thi sis pure evil and if i retold this story with names from another culture you would condemn it and rightly so.

    Mp, you don't know me... or what I would or would not condemn. I am not necessarily like you. If you retold this story I would share with the exact same thing: whatever it is I received from Lord on the matter. Because, it would be the truth. And so, if HE condemned it, while perhaps it would be mine to condemn as well... I would try not to do so myself... but simply share HIS condemnation of it. Regardless, it would be whatever HE said about the matter. A slave of Christ (who hopes you understand that part, now), SA

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    I did ask you to explain...and you told me I couldn't understand. IN FACT, you went to great lengths telling me, in a variety of ways how I wouldn't understand. Instead of ANSWERING my question. I understand though. Must have been difficult without tec there to translate for you.

    I mean NO disrespect, Still, but I think your memory is "off" a tad. I explained, EXPLICITLY. And then you posted the following, in response to dear S+G (peace to you!), a fellow atheist:

    As an atheist trying to understand God I ask: Can we say God is acting through humans to change the situation? ...S&G

    Dude! seriously. Sometimes you confuse me. An atheist doesn't try to understand GOD...or why God would do this or that. As an atheist I am simply trying to understand why OTHERS believe in a particular god and why. And how they reconcile what their god, that they believe in, does or doesn't do. And maybe...just maybe...try to see if any of them make any sense whatsoever to me...so far...I can't see why someone chosesa god to believe in, other than, that is what most people of their culture believe. So people go with that idea, and some really make it their own

    And THAT is what I responded to what I said... in essence... oh, wait... that isn't the discussion I thought we were having at all... if that's what you're trying to understand that I can't explain it to you - and as for what God IS... I don't have the words such that you could understand what He is as they don't exist in this world. And so there was no point in us continuing. YOU took that to mean me saying that you, Still, "will never understand." When I tried to explain... the discussion spiraled down. You didn't want to HEAR anything more.

    Please... take a minute to re-read the thread.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Dude! seriously. Sometimes you confuse me. An atheist doesn't try to understand GOD...or why God would do this or that. As an atheist I am simply trying to understand why OTHERS believe in a particular god and why. And how they reconcile what their god, that they believe in, does or doesn't do. And maybe...just maybe...try to see if any of them make any sense whatsoever to me...so far...I can't see why someone chosesa god to believe in, other than, that is what most people of their culture believe. So people go with that idea, and some really make it their own
    The thread wasn't about trying to understand your God aguest...it was about...how we choose a god to believe in in the first place. It took many twists and turns along the way...evolution...and YOUR god (lots about your god). Then YOU tried to tie science into what you were saying. I asked you to support it with an explanation of what you meant. I was trying to understand what you were claiming in a scientific context. IE...your definition of ENERGY, since you claimed my definition was different. If you are going to claim you understand this special type of energy...then...explain it. If you can't explain it. How can you claim to understand it? Like I said...so far I couldn't see why you chose your god as opposed to the 30,000 other possible gods on offer. And you offered very little reason. I did like RIPs ideas on that thread...in fact I found them interesting. Unlike yours.
  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    As a gladiator that has won his freedom - Caesar has allowed me to watch the games from his royal podium. As an observer in the lengthy tournaments that take place between Christians and sceptics, I must in all honesty say that from my observation point Christians are down on points. This is because logic can be presented as evidence, whereas internal experience cannot.

    Some Christians believe that the best way to spread the word is to fiercely debate with sceptics in the belief that other looking on will become convinced that Christ exists. Unfortunately this approach is flawed. Belief in a personal Christ who privately speaks to his followers is a private, subjective, internal experience. This being the case, trying to share it with those who have not had this experience is not possible as they can only view such claims objectively. Trying to share internal experiences with those who have been believers and had such internal experiences but then found the experiences were not from the source they thought, is even harder.

    Without belief a person can only look at evidence logically and without emotion before deciding whether they can invest in such a belief. Because a personal relationship with Christ is internal and personal, the only way someone can be convinced is to have the same experience. Logically, if Christ wants someone to be convinced he will give them such an experience. In the absence of Christ’s help, another person’s internal experience can never be presented as evidence. Obviously this is why non-believers have the upper hand in such debates. They have nothing to defend, nothing to lose.

    Once Christians use their faith, their internal experience and belief, to try to disprove scientific findings they are on a hiding to nothing. Resorting to using insults in place of facts or evidence is utterly unconvincing. There are more effective ways of sharing faith that engaging in gladiatorial bouts - entertaining as they are. Still each to their own.

  • mP
    mP

    mP:

    Im not sure i understand but that sounds completely dumb. I think your saying this proverb by JC is a test to see just how good people are. Thats utterly crazy, the people who need real rules are the aresholes in socieety. Jesus failure in this case created the misery that

    was xianity for 2000 years.

    TEC

    If you are not sure you understand, then how can you make a statement about it? I said nothing about a test... but simply said that what people do (including what they twist to suit their own desires) reveals what is in them.

    MP:

    Well what else do your words mean ? I couldnt see any other logical conclusion. I await further clarification.

  • mP
    mP

    mP:

    Given both helped create the universe surely asking them to give us an acccurate uncorrupted Bible is not too much. Any less and they look incompetant.

    TEC:

    Why? The written word is limited; imperfect; 'incompetent'.

    Why would God have to rely upon a form of communication that is lacking? WE are the ones who do that... because WE are lacking... in FAITH. So as to be led, and taught, in spirit, by the Spirit of Truth (Christ)

    mP: Well the entire purpose of the Bible supposedly is for him to communicate and teach. If its that important then get the job done right. Surely a superior being like God can manage that without trying too hard. Any excuse for its poor clarity and so on just makes god look terribly pathetic.

    Faith is about believe, it doesnt "teach" anyone the right hting to do. How does anyone know if something is right or wrong by faith ? Faith means to believe when you dont have proof. I would suggset that you consult a dictionary and learn what the word means. It would appear that the concept of faith is confusing for you. Different people have different levels of fiath and wha tthey believe. You cant "learn" anything from faith. I can have fiath i want to learn to Chinese, thats not going to help me get there in anyway. One needs a guide or some reference material etc.
  • mP
    mP
    mP: -> AGUEST Please add my nick in front of my saying when you quote me so its obvious who says what

    AGUEST Sorry, but I have my own style, mp, which I've been using for over a decade now. Rather than use a "nick" I simply put what you say in a quote box. mP:
    Wrapping boxes around the other persons saying doesnt help identify that person, especially if your not one of the original participants. When you get multple levels of replies its down right confusing. When you quote someone, you need to say who said that. The newspapers, tv etc always give the persons name, they dont jsut present the passage.

    Surely you can see the error in your ways. I guess if you cant then its not a wonder you cant figure out the bible. I dont mean to be rude but thats a pathetic answer, just like people who say they believe in sky gods because their parents did and that continues for thousands of years all the way back to the Noah.

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