Sandy Hook Massacre - Solutions

by tootired2care 92 Replies latest social current

• 

  besty

  @too tired to care - Interesting that you chose a thread on solutions for the USA to pick holes in another country...

  the Daily Mail values ideology over facts - so be careful when you use that publication as your window on the UK.

  We have somewhere between 50-100 gun related homicides per annum in the UK. For 2010 - 2011 it was 60.

  http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb0212/hosb0212?view=Binary

  In the USA the per capita comparison for firearm homicide is 74x the UK number.

  Not saying we are perfect - 60 deaths is 60 too many - just that something is broken in the USA...and this thread is about solutions...
• 

  cantleave

  Ha Ha - The Daily Mail - Very unbiased paper with no agenda! lol!! I would take that rag with a pinch of sale TTTC.
• 

  cantleave

  Sorry - I see Besty has made that point, and much more eloquently than me......
• 

  tootired2care

  @Betsy

  First off I didn't CHOOSE to pick holes in another country, no where is this in my initial remarks. When someone flippantly touts GB laws as the "most obvious solution" to the problem when it's obviously not, as the data points out. If it was the solution it would get better, but over the last decade it hasn't. There is obviously more to fixing the problem than the endless droning mantra of gun control. All that GB's law does from my point of view is penalize law abiding citizens by not allowing them to protect themselves from thugs.
• 

  besty

  @TT2C - yes I see now you were responding to someone else suggesting UK style gun laws - apologies.

  The devil is in the detail with crime reporting stats as headlined in the Daily Mail article you cited - me threatening you with a replica air pistol is a 'gun crime' - well it is in 2012, but maybe it wasn't in 2005 etc etc

  What is not under dispute is that 375x people are murdered with firearms in the USA compared to the UK - allowing for 5x population thats a 75x per capita difference.

  Is it unreasonable to suggest our gun control regulation might be a factor?

  I am not suggesting the USA needs or wants <or is ready for> our gun laws - I made another suggestion on this thread, which may be a piece of the solution puzzle.
• 

  l p

  besty I agree with you... firstly you need to compare the stats by per capita....

  we have seen that the USA has higher rates of people being killed by gun crime....

  so logically what are the preventative measures?

  2tired2care says having more gun control and better mental health (or something to that effect)...

  the fact is no death is acceptable however GB rates are smaller than the USA...so that is a good target to be looking at to achieve as a nation in terms of decreasing rates.

  GB's gun laws are stronger.....this is very likely a preventative measure that corelates with the lower killing rates.....

  I dont agree with 2tired2cares viewpoint: on having a gun to protect oneself from thugs

  other countries in the world dont have the same freedom in obtaining guns and the general population is generally safe and not needing to carry a gun to protect themselves....secondly if that was the case then every person should be bloody armed as they are walking down the street....Seem a bit over the top?

  that is just an excuse to have a firearm. You can't just shoot a 'thug' because you would have to defend yourself in court for murder/manslaughter and part of your defense would be 'self defense' and to test that you would have to prove that it was 'reasonable force'.

  on mental health 2 tired2care mentioned that why cant kids do a test to get a mental health score like when they get their scores from finishing schoool....well the problem with this is that the field of psychiatry doesn't work like that. It is not a matter of giving someone a 20 multiple choice question quiz to determine their mental health....In my nursing training I was taught that it takes a psychiatrist a good 6 months to fully assess a patient and give them a diagnosis. Sure people get diagnosed in shorter time periods than that based on their symptomatology i.e. psychosis

  mental health is an issue..... and needs more funding in general....and more public education.....

  however blaming the parents 2 tired2care for their kid going on a killing spree is not right..... Im sure that mother of the boy was a loving mother...if the child has a mental health issue it doesnt matter what the parent does in nurturing the child that wont fix/cure the child....they need treatment...

  Lp
• 

  tootired2care

  I do think that with America you have some unique variables that must be factored in with these gun statistics that make the comparison with Britain somewhat suspect.

  We have a an ongoing war going on our US/Mexican border. Most of those killings are factored in with overall us gun killing statistics. Notice the states that share a border with Mexico have really high gun deaths.

  Another variable is we have more inner city gangs than other western european countries and Japan. These are variables that Britain and Japan don't have to content with.

  http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

  Gun crimes by US states Rates per 100,000 population. Click heading to sort table. Download this data
  State	Total firearms murders, 2011	% change, 2010-11	Fire- arms murders as % of all murders	Fire- arms murders rate	Fire- arms robb- eries rate	Fire- arms assaults rate
  RATES ARE PER 100,000 PEOPLE. SOURCE: FBI UNIFORM CRIME REPORTS NO DATA FOR FLORIDA OR ALABAMA
  United States	8,583	-3	68	2.75	39.25	43.77
  Alaska	16	-16	55	2.24	18.19	80.47
  Arizona	222	-4	65	3.53	50.24	57.36
  Arkansas	110	18	72	4.39	45.45	100.56
  California	1,220	-3	68	3.25	42.97	45.39
  Colorado	73	12	50	1.51	25.74	45.72
  Connecticut	94	-3	73	2.71	34.85	20.06
  Delaware	28	-26	68	3.09	69.67	81.36
  District of Columbia	77	-22	71	12.46	242.56	87.7
  Georgia	370	-2	71	3.93	72.48	58.64
  Hawaii	1	-86	14	0.07	n/a	n/a
  Idaho	17	42	53	1.14	3.41	23.43
  Illinois	377	4	83	2.93	2.26	5.26
  Indiana	183	29	64	3.29	53.14	29.91
  Iowa	19	-10	43	0.71	7.31	21.95
  Kansas	73	16	66	2.78	24.86	76.87
  Kentucky	100	-14	67	2.36	39.77	25.14
  Louisiana	402	15	83	10.16	63.48	99.51
  Maine	12	9	48	0.9	5.8	4.52
  Maryland	272	-7	68	4.7	79.71	41.18
  Massachusetts	122	3	67	2.02	27.84	33.19
  Michigan	450	9	73	5.06	55.95	86.41
  Minnesota	43	-19	61	0.82	20.11	22.52
  Mississippi	138	15	74	7.46	60.07	51.69
  Missouri	276	-14	76	4.64	52.47	88.9
  Montana	7	-42	39	0.76	3.78	29.03
  Nebraska	42	31	65	2.5	25.44	33.84
  Nevada	75	-11	58	3.07	69.77	53.3
  New Hampshire	6	20	38	0.53	9.83	15.14
  New Jersey	269	9	71	3.07	49.87	26.94
  New Mexico	60	-10	50	2.98	34.96	87.26
  New York	445	-14	57	4.12	23.28	20.06
  North Carolina	335	17	69	3.87	48.72	67.44
  North Dakota	6	50	50	0.93	4.79	4.79
  Ohio	344	11	70	3.54	65.45	37.97
  Oklahoma	131	18	64	3.64	42.81	58.07
  Oregon	40	11	52	1.05	14.57	17.55
  Pennsylvania	470	3	74	3.97	54.69	39.44
  Rhode Island	5	-69	36	0.57	12.71	17.86
  South Carolina	223	8	70	5.41	52.93	127.88
  South Dakota	5	-38	33	0.68	4.91	20.6
  Tennessee	244	11	65	3.92	72.88	137.58
  Texas	699	-13	64	2.91	50.21	58.28
  Utah	26	18	51	0.97	10.98	21.32
  Vermont	4	100	50	0.75	4.32	12.6
  Virginia	208	-17	69	2.58	35.4	21.35
  Washington	79	-15	49	1.25	20.72	28.44
  West Virginia	43	59	58	2.87	16.08	52.04
  Wisconsin	80	-18	59	1.47	43.86	27.4
  Wyoming	11	120	73	2.01	3.65	20.44
• 

  tootired2care

  @betsy - Apology accepted, and I do hear what you're saying. I just think this is a complex problem and there isn't a simple solution to fix it. I think some refinements to gun control laws make sense, but more is needed to address this problem.
• 

  tootired2care

  however blaming the parents 2 tired2care for their kid going on a killing spree is not right..... Im sure that mother of the boy was a loving mother

  If you read the news reports they have painted her out to be a paranoid dooms day prepper. I've read stories that her oldest son had little to no contact with family since 2010. She would never let her own sister inside of her house, or others. The other thing is, even crazy people don't shoot their mother in face four times unless they have great anger at that person. I don't think that was a happy home from what i've heard so far, but it will interesting to see what new details emerge.
• 

  Theocratic Sedition

  22 school children got slashed in China by some nut with a knife. I imagine it would have been deadlier if he had a gun. Dont know what China's gun laws are like. But it is very ironic to have had that slashing event in China happen only hours earlier than the Connecticut massacre. Heluva contrast.

  Even with stronger gun laws be it limited ammunition or outright banning of certain makes and models, where there's a will there's a way. Kinda like car alarms or the club, might slow a theif down, but if he really wants it, he'll get it.