Looking After Widows and Orphans... and Spending One's "Riches"
by AGuest 136 Replies latest jw friends
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NewChapter
I think that faith has co-opted the notion of charity. Like many things---love, marriage, suffering, it has turned it into a spiritual issue. It's not spiritual at all. We have evolved as social creatures, and our willingness to band together and care for each other has been advantageous. Some people might think that such a view cheapens charity and good works, but I disagree. However it came about, our feelings and motivations are authentic. We feel good when we help others, and there is nothing wrong with that. We are distressed when others hurt, and there is nothing wrong with that. Such emotion is not elevated because one would assume it comes from some god. In fact, I think it is elevated with the awesome realization that this originated with US---humans----we are that amazing with no intervention from any other source. We are that amazing.
We are not fallen or in need of salvation. We are connected to each other and we know it. Wonderful things grow from purely human sources, and to me that is more beautiful than any story about any being that has to urge us to be charitible. We don't need to be urged. We already are. That's what we do. Your mileage may vary, but isn't it spectacular? We came up with that all on our own, and it is one of the things that makes us remarkable. We even extend this to animals.
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NewChapter
I was thinking on this some more, and it occurs to me that we are so amazing, we do such wonderful things, that we actually had to create gods to explain how we were able to come up with such beautiful values. We don't even fully realize how outstanding we are, and just can't believe this beauty comes from us, so we needed to pass the credit on elsewhere.
That makes the idea of this just being a human thing (no gods) even more mind blowing.
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AGuest
We feel good when we help others, and there is nothing wrong with that. We are distressed when others hurt, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Not ALL of us, dear NC (peace to you!). True, some [successfully] "do [these things] by nature". Others, however, do not and so must be under [some kind of] "law" in order to do good toward others... or to not do harm to others. Sometimes that "law" is civil, sometimes it is, well, religious, for lack of a better term... and sometimes it is spiritual (but not religious at all, as that word applies to institutionalized systems of worship). The first group, those who do such by NATURE... and are SUCCESSFUL... are a law "unto themselves." Unfortunately, some who CLAIM to have such "nature"... have, instead, a kind of... well, for lack of a better word... contempt... for those who DO need some kind of law... or don't share their particular "nature." Those that do have and manifest that contempt, however, are actually existing in violation of the very "nature" THEY claim to possess. Such is often, often demonstrated here.
Rather than live... and LET live... as they wish people to believe is their "nature" to do... they conduct themselves like the hungry predators of the beast kingdom: seeking for and hunting down those they consider to be "weak" (and so, in their eyes contemptible)... in an effort to devour them. They see these as nothing more than "food." Some who are so stalked manage to stay alive, either by joining the pack... or fighting them off... but most are devoured... or at least sent cowering off into the night, severely, if not mortally (spiritually-speaking) wounded, never to allow themselves to come out of their hovels again... at least, not while such beasts are present. As a result, they must either move on to other territory, risk another attack... or starve to death.
For those who manage to fight the brutes off, the situation turns from a hunt for food... to a game of cat-and-mouse: a contest intend on wearing the holdout down. Fortunately, most of those who are able to fight them off... and so prolong their lives... are tough-skinned and so eventually the predators move on, seeking easier, more "tender" prey.
Because such a "nature" exists, however, some MUST be "tamed". Because, if left to themselves such will devour entire villages. Which is where [some kind of] law comes in: when it become evident that such wild animals will never be tamed... but always be man-eaters and therefore a serious danger... for the sake of the PEOPLE of the village, as well as the DOMESTIC animals, including valuable livestock... these must be put down.
There is NO society that doesn't have that law. Not a one.
Again, peace to you.
A slave of Christ,
SA
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EntirelyPossible
*sigh*....
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NewChapter
i don't know what all the talk of law is but i'm referring to human nature. indeed it's not all good stuff so we also created devils. but it is all just human. the good and bad and it all originates with us. we have collectively grown and are so much better than say those that created the law of moses. that was a brutal society with horrific laws. for areas that have dismissed all that malarky as mistakes of our past, things are much better. for those that still cling to those past mistakes because they can't admit that leaving such nonsense behind is good for the human race, things continue to be brutal. history has taught us what we are at our best and what we are at our worst. our best is encouraging and hopefl because we see what mere humans are capable of with no need for fake outside help. we also see we have much to work on but have also proven that we are capable of making things better.
that some want to pretend this is some kind of divine law or intervention only shows how faith has hijacked human nature to fit their own narrative. humans just are. we love not because agod put love there. we came up with that ourselves. thar won't prevent some from pretending our love is some manifestation of some godly trait, while, coveniently our hate is not. but it is what itis. purely human. and if you see humankind as simply fallen instead of facing facts and simply weighing our potential and seeking to intensify the helpful parts, then yes, highly negative assesments will be made. if we accept ourselves for what we are then we can put the good and bad into perspective and sometimes focus on the amazing things.
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AGuest
i don't know what all the talk of law is
Yes, I know, dear NC (peace to you!)... and that's what often stands between us: you don't really WANT to know, and so don't seek clarification. That's not to say you don't seek clarification of anything, but you pick and choose which things you WANT to understand. "All the talk of law" is not something you want to understand... and so you dismiss it. Leaving you without understanding.
but i'm referring to human nature.
As was I. But... you don't understand that. Because you dismissed the first part. Had you sought to understand that, as well, you would have understood that I was referring to human nature, as well. Because some of it is quite animalistic. We are, after all, animals. Unfortunately, some it can also be quite "beastly." We are not, however, beasts. Well, not all of us. J/K - ).
indeed it's not all good stuff so we also created devils.
We did... but not all of us blame/ascribe all bad to devils. Some of us realize that it is what is in US that causes many of our "problems." Our own human "nature." Now, are there things that exploit, influence, provoke, draw out that "nature"? Absolutely. There are also tendencies within ourselves that bring it out, including a lack of love, a lack of self-control, a lack of goodness, a lack of kindness... etc.
but it is all just human.
You won't find ME disagreeing with that. Indeed, my analogy above attributed everything to the human nature. HUMAN nature, however, is why we need laws. Hence, my comments ABOUT law(s). See?
the good and bad and it all originates with us.
YEP! Unfortunately, for some, more bad than good. And you might think that, well, the bad are the exception... and you would be right. But, as with most things, it's usually a small group who lead others to bad... just as it's usually a small group that leads them to good. Then... there are the masses in the middle... which both groups spend their time trying to influence. Unfortunately, while the good may make progress, such is slow. In the meantime, the "bad" being wrought... does much more damage. Ask the folks in Gaza. Or Afghanistan. Syria.
we have collectively grown and are so much better than say those that created the law of moses.
How can THAT be... when so many still live BY that Law... NEED it, actually, in order to know right from wrong???
that was a brutal society with horrific laws.
See above. Many, many... still live by it. Some, what, close to 6,000 years later? Some not only use it to oppress their fellow man, but to kill him if it comes down to that. They still judge by it, look to it as to how to "walk"... rely on it AND oppose it upon others. The appearance that we are SO much better today... is a bit of an illusion, except perhaps in certain parts of the western world (man, I TRULY wish some of you would expand your views beyond the western world - I mean, it's as if all tribal existence, for example, is gone, non-existent... which is not the case at all).
for areas that have dismissed all that malarky as mistakes of our past, things are much better. for those that still cling to those past mistakes because they can't admit that leaving such nonsense behind is good for the human race, things continue to be brutal.
You know, I'm not so sure that that's true. There are many, many well-off, very rich, very affluent, and very philanthropic people in this world who cling to that "nonsense." They have and receive the best this world has to offer, whether homes, food, medical care. Some of them use their wealth to advance science and medical and other research. Matter of fact, I had the opportunity to be in on the Peninsula a couple of weeks ago, for several days in a row. I'm not sure if you're aware, but the Silicon Valley is home to some very affluent folks. From Cupertino to Belmont, you not only have some of your most influential folks living there but some of your most educated. Let's see, Stanford is there (took the pups for a LOVELY walk on campus!)... Notre Dame de Namur... And we can't forget that Google, Yahoo, Facebook, Cisco, Oracle, and many, many more all have their headquarters there.
One thing that caught my attention, though (and it always does when I'm in areas like these)... is the number of CHURCHES... PER BLOCK... that are a part of these communities. Not churches like a few miles down the street from me... where the "churches" consist largely of store-front meetings places that were formerly liquor stores or boutique shops, abandoned as the poor moved in and businesses moved out. Nope, these are huge edifices, with highly manicured grounds and impeccable exteriors, and late-model, even luxury cars in the parking lots. At one point, the dear one with me and I counted... and there were FIVE of these... FIVE... within less than a mile stretch! Again, we're not talking Reverend Leroy kinds of churches, no - I'm talkin' "The Most Right Reverend Pastor" with probably 3-4 universities degrees, IN ADDITION to a theological doctorate, under his/her belt. SOMEONE is attending those places... as well as monetarily supporting them. So...
Indeed, I don't think you realize just how many of the world's top universities were started by... and are still sponsored and RUN (not to mention attended) by people who did not and still don't consider it malarky. I'm not one of them; however, it seems to ME, based on what's been in the news over the past few years (and I'm not talking Fox or CNN, but the Times, Wall Street Journal, etc.) is NOT that the generation behind us is leaving OFF religion... but many, MANY... are returning TO it. Some... at a run.
So, I'm not sure what you're looking at, but I don't see a whole lot of folks "dismissing" that malarky... in our areas or otherwise. I mean, I am sure SOME are... but not in the amounts you and those like you wish folks to think.
history has taught us what we are at our best and what we are at our worst.
HAS it? If that's the case, why are there still conflicts in the Middle East? I'm thinking that not everyone has learned history's "lessons." And so, then, what for these? Law. For some, civil law. For some, religious law. And for some of us... spiritual law, which is love.
our best is encouraging and hopefl because we see what mere humans are capable of with no need for fake outside help.
And we've seen what they are without it, as well.
we also see we have much to work on but have also proven that we are capable of making things better.
And making them worse. We still kill the innocent, still put our patriotism over reason, still oppress our fellow man for the sake of our own need and greed... Again, some "are a law unto themselves," and perhaps they are those you speak of, those who PROVE they are capable of making things better. Surely, you realize that they are not the majority, though. They are the same minority... and, without intervention... will always be... alluded to by Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged).
that some want to pretend this is some kind of divine law or intervention only shows how faith has hijacked human nature to fit their own narrative.
I see no pretense but rather abuse of that truth.
humans just are. we love not because a god put love there. we came up with that ourselves.
Some may have come up with it on their own. Again, they are the minority. Most do not... can not. It isn't IN them. While you believe that given enough time all will get it, others (including myself) are of the mind all will not. On what do I base that? Man's history and track record within that history. We don't see as many wars/brutal conflicts NOT because man has grown in his love for his neighbor... but because man now has a restraint, even if it's a temporary one. It's called... the bomb.
thar won't prevent some from pretending our love is some manifestation of some godly trait, while, coveniently our hate is not. but it is what itis. purely human.
It's not a pretense, though... and even science can prove the latter: just put 3-4 two-year-olds in a room with one toy... and see what the result is. Heck, put only two... and one toy. Eventually (and in pretty short time, actually), someone's going to have to step in and stop one or more from killing the other... WITH the toy. It is... what it is: human nature.
of facing facts and simply weighing our potential and seeking to intensify the helpful parts, then yes, highly negative assesments will be made.
I'm not sure what you mean by that statement, so perhaps you will clarify...
if we accept ourselves for what we are then we can put the good and bad into perspective and sometimes focus on the amazing things.
I absolutely agree! BUT... we would have to ACCEPT the bad... that is in each of us INDIVIDUALLY. Which requires HONESTY... and TRUTH. Unfortunately, most of "us" don't want to acknowledge what is in us, let alone accept it. We're AFRAID to. Afraid of what we will see... what others will see... and how others will view/treat us as a result. And it is FEAR... that leads to this lack... of TRUTH... that leads to the lack... of LOVE.
I know of One who can help anyone who wishes out with that, though. All of it: their fear, lack of truth... and lack of love. He's not far off from any of us, though, so all One really needs to do... is ask.
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
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AGuest
I was thinking on this some more, and it occurs to me that we are so amazing, we do such wonderful things, that we actually had to create gods to explain how we were able to come up with such beautiful values.
Or some are just honest as to themselves, KNOW themselves... and know "how" they personally came up with such beautiful values - they were gifts. Not something they paid to have, but received free. They realize that since these ARE gifts, they are meant to be shared. And so they do: share. Regardless of the nature of the gift.
We don't even fully realize how outstanding we are, and just can't believe this beauty comes from us, so we needed to pass the credit on elsewhere.
I'm not sure that that's it. I think that more often, others who don't realize how outstanding THEY are... or can BE... don't allow others to state where their 'beauty' comes from. If they say it came from within themselves, then they are met with, "OMG, you're so arrogant and immodest; how can you SAY that, that such came from YOU!? You're nothing and no better than anyone else... huh, what? well, no, I can't sing, dance, make money, builds bridges or buildings or ships like you... but that you can doesn't make you better than ME, so you need to be modest and shut up about it!". If they say it came from another source... same response. Nope, they're supposed to bow their heads, lower their eyes, and "humble" themselves before other MEN... men of much less skill, talent, and intelligence. Men for whom it doesn't matter, they're never satisfied.
So you might want to rethink just who is responsible for THAT: God, who asks for the glory... or man... who demands that his fellow man give it to... well, anyone but himself. Sometimes, not even to God (so, then, who?).
That makes the idea of this just being a human thing (no gods) even more mind blowing.
For you, perhaps. For me, you simply helped ME see the futility of trying to please man. The MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... are MUCH easier. All THEY ask is that we love them, ourselves, our brother, our neighbor, strangers... and our enemies. I can do that.
Figuring out what MAN wants... from me AND from himself... still having problems with that one.
Peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA
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elderelite
There is NO society that doesn't have that law. Not a one.
The Maasai dont.
Imagine what else you are wrong about ;)
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AGuest
The Maasai don't
Really...
"One myth about the Maasai is that each young man is supposed to kill a lion before he is circumcised. Lion hunting was an activity of the past, but it has been banned in East Africa—yet lions are still hunted when they maul Maasai livestock, [53] and young warriors who engage in traditional lion killing do not face significant consequences. [54] Increasing concern regarding lion populations has given rise to at least one program which promotes accepting compensation when a lion kills livestock, rather than hunting and killing the predator. [55] Nevertheless, killing a lion gives one great value and celebrity status in the community." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasai_people#cite_ref-53
"Disclaimer: We regret the loss of six cows, seven goats, seven sheep, one donkey and six lions in the outskirts of Nairobi National Park. From our sources the killing of six lions was not done to satisfy a cultural tradition. The herdsmen hunted the lions as an act of revenge for the loss of cattle. It is our hope that Kenya Wildlife Service and the Maasai of Ilkeek-Lemedung'I will meet soon and agree on a lasting solution to avert the loss of precious lions and Maasai cattle in the future. Maasai Association does not support lion hunt." http://www.maasai-association.org/lion.html
So, you believe (know?) that should a man-eating lion threaten a Maasai village, not a man or woman among them would take that lion down? You are seriously of the mind that the Maasai would kill a lion for killing a goat or a cow... but not another Maasai?
Imagine, if you will permit yourself to do so... what else YOU are wrong about.
A slave of Christ,
SA, who really thinks you should opt out of these discussions... really. They didn't kill one lion - they killed SIX...