A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?

by palmtree67 699 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    AG - I've heard you out by reading extensively on your own forum. Its not all that much to be honest - you say the same stuff as here and my reading skills are fine.

    Uh, wait... why are you reading extensively on MY forum, Q?? Especially since you say I'm saying the same things here? Man, I have asked you before, many times, and I'll ask you again: what are you LOOKING for? He isn't ON an Internet forum, luv! I mean, c'mon... you must KNOW this!

    And why are you reading incognito? No one cares if you come visit... except maybe you. And now that you repeated that you DO that... why all the hide-and-go-seek? What are YOU afraid of? Your friends seeing you the other forum? Everyone knows you're an atheist, Q. At least, you say you are...

    You aren't special.

    BOO-YOW! I've been saying THAT for years... and years... and years... now, too. Because I don't think I am. But apparently YOU do. WHY??

    You aren't a new unanswerable force.

    This is true. I ain't no mystery or enigma. I ain't no better or more special than you. Yet, you still have questions re me that aren't answered... for you... or by you. Which is why you secretly visit our site. C'mon, Q - at least be honest with yourself... even if you can't be honest with the rest of us.

    Your a bunch of devout individuals having a bit of shared bliss and all power to you.

    You do know what you sound like there, don't you? The high-schooler who didn't get invited to the after party?

    Its been done for thousands of years and it will be done in the future.

    Yet, you are having difficulty living with that truth... and so believe you alone are going to be the "one" who changes it.

    You're a Joseph Smith, a Bhudda, a Thiota , the local street preacher , a Paul etc.

    Sticks and stones (although, if I were someone else, I might actually be flattered that you think that highly of me - I mean, some of these went down in history. Me? Nahhhh... I will either be alive with my Lord returns and pass from one glory to the next... or die before he returns and no one will ever know or think of me again... until New Jerusalem reigns. I look forward to either...).

    I understand that its painful to be contradicted and to be told you could be causing harm.

    Why? Have you experienced that? I don't like being told I could cause harm, no, because it's not based on truth... but that folks DO tell me doesn't cause me pain. Well, not me directly. I feel the pain of the one saying it, though... because fear IS painful. THAT I do know...

    I see the pain in the LDS missionaries eyes as I disabuse them of false ideas and premises and point out the cost of being wrong in wasted hope, faith and behavioural changes.

    Well, that's understandable but very sad, IMHO, because you SHOULD see JOY. As least to the extent such ones realize that may have been set free. That you DON'T see joy is telling, though. I would wager the "pain" you see, then, is just as much related to their fear... of not knowing "where" to go next (and, unfortunately, you don't yet possess the knowledge to tell that there IS no "where"... but only a "whom" to go away to)... as it is their anger at having been lied to.

    Anyhow - night all:)

    Night... and peace to you, Q. Truly.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    So AG - you prove that this is all about personalities. You don't really want to be understood. What you want is to win. I get it and I'm happy with that status quo. Can you see why the following is an example of damned if I do and damned if I don't:

    Uh, wait... why are you reading extensively on MY forum, Q?? Especially since you say I'm saying the same things here? Man, I have asked you before, many times, and I'll ask you again: what are you LOOKING for? He isn't ON an Internet forum, luv! I mean, c'mon... you must KNOW this!
    And why are you reading incognito? No one cares if you come visit... except maybe you. And now that you repeated that you DO that... why all the hide-and-go-seek? What are YOU afraid of? Your friends seeing you the other forum? Everyone knows you're an atheist, Q. At least, you say you are...

    One reason I read your forum because I wanted to see how believers would respond when given no rebuttals. You didnt dissapoint. The 'why are atheists angry ' thread was typical. The same question was asked and fully answered here and was given a great deal of time and thought. In your forum the same wrong preconceptions that were tried and rejected here were agreed on there - you diagnosed without the patient. The weakest one was of course the canard about actually being angry at god - though I was glad that one poster did mention that that was obviously oxymoronic.

    The other reason I read your forum is because its a good way to see what motivates people. Certain posters post the same question on both forums and reveal additional details (like motivations) on yours. This helps to see where they are coming from. It also is a good guage as to whether they are understanding answers they are receiving - normally not because the return and report mode normally contains some reference to an imagined or over egged slight and no sign of additional comprehension, information or wisdom.

    Another reason I read that forum is because it gives me a chance to watch a religious experience unfolding , much as I find it fascinating to watch the same type experiences on pro LDS or BA xian discussion forums, they are a very powerful study in group think, shared language, the increased definition of a 'them and us' mentality and the way in which supernatural stories are propgated and nurtered in the confines of no dissent. What I find fascinating in your forum is how much of it is simply a vehicle for worship of you. You set it up. You post the most (of the most last 50 active posts you've had the last word on 27 of them) and you get your ego stroked all the time. You say/reveal anything you want and you have a core of people venerating it as the words of JHat. You are so far out of the xian canon its amazing and yet you've managed to carry them ! You've created a new language replacing Jesus and God of the bible with two new entities and angels with gargolyle looking creatures:

    JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah).

    ... the only thing I can use to describe them that comes close... are gargoyles.

    you have started blessing your forum members:

    So, again, thank you... and may the undeserved kindness and mercy of MY God and Father, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... and the love and peace of HIS Son and Christ, my Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit... JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... be upon you ALL... you and your entire households... to time indefinite.

    you see yourself as a divinely appointed teacher passing on revelations:

    So as the pattern has been shown and set by our Lord and master, I only hope that I can show a fraction of a mustard seed of that to others.

    ... and ALL that That One has told me, tells me yet, has shown me and will show me yet...

    you are instructing like an Elder:

    Let your light shine, my sister. Don't hide it under a basket. Just remember to keep love in the front. Don't let anger overtake you: be wrathful, yet do not sin.

    you are justifying anything you post here (they are using "bad conduct" so I can too):

    I have just learned to give them back their medicine, but with the "bitterness" (to their "tastebuds") of truth

    you recognise that you have a group working on your behalf:

    I know it's not always easy for you to put yourself out there on my behalf, so please know that I absolutely DO appreciate it

    you are love bombing and flattering:

    I see you... all... and I love you all.
    'cause Lord knows, I can NOT keep up with your "deep" brain

    I could go on but I hope you see why I find it fascinating how you are manoeuvering within your faith group and how they are being manipulated (my opinion!). Its a fascinating story unfolding. It helps me to see where I went wrong and why I found it so easy to spread the unctuous and 'loving' mormon message so easily and why people fall for it.

    I also sometimes find it entertaining :O

  • soft+gentle
    soft+gentle

    this is the kind of discussion I like - it is active and passionate whilst anger and insult that stems from capture by JWs is held in check.

    Shelby, I just want to say that my atheism does not result from becoming disillusioned with religion through being a JW (I still am not disillusioned with religion but see it in an atheistic frame in that it is one type of engagement with the internal and external world but it is a top down one and it is this that I object to). I was an atheist when I was born then my parents taught me about God and I became a believer in God but by the time I was a teenager I had gone back to being an athiest.

    Now that I am no longer a JW or rather no longer experience social pressure to believe I have found my joyful and couragious atheism. When I need help or want to feel pleasure at life and offer my own contribution to it I focus on all my internal and external links to the world in which I live and whatever encouragement I need comes to me and the contributions I want to make are given to it often perhaps for a future.

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo

    Q. Well, well.

    Catching up with what transpired here overnight, I learn that you read extensively in Shelby's forum! Hope you enjoy it! It would be far too far a stretch of the imagination to think that you won't put your own interpretation on it and then broadcast your version, and you have not disappointed! Enjoy your own version if you need to. Did you see how we are all chuckling over the thought of being Shelby's followers?

    What makes you think that anyone venerates what Shelby might say as the...what was it?...oh yes, the "words of Jhat"? LOL!

    Hey, if it makes you happy, Q, think anything you want! Just remember that although you can put your own meaning onto things and tell others, those others, by which I mean all those quiet people who look in curiously at this thread and never post, can also look in on Shelby's forum, where anyone is welcome, and see how things really are.

    It is so silly, one can only smile. I feel I want to exclaim, indulgently, bless you! But then you seem to be unable to distinguish a real blessing, so you wouldn't really understand it as it is said. Hey! You might even think it angry....there are some frequent posters here who can read the most amused words....maybe they just can't "get" the British tongue-in-cheek, dry, throw-away way of speaking, all the nuances just miss them completely...but never mind....and interpret them as angry! For goodness sake!

    Have they never heard of the mirror effect? It is very, very apparent with some posters.

    You've all given me a good smile, anyway!

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    "When I need help or want to feel pleasure at life and offer my own contribution to it I focus on all my internal and external links to the world in which I live and whatever encouragement I need comes to me and the contributions I want to make are given to it often perhaps for a future."

    soft+gentle Your whole post was v ery well expressed.

  • elderelite
    elderelite

    Well reasoned Q. It will be missed of course, as is the fact that repeatedly the exjwforjeshuawhatyamacallhim forum has invited people to lurk, now its owner is chastizing you for it, but again, no supprise :) ive looked at it too, and for the same reasons. I was very curious to see what happens when the owner is left unchallenged and unchecked from reality. It was every bit as icky feeling as i would have imagined.

  • cofty
    cofty

    I have browsed it as well - the word sychophantic describes the atmosphere.

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    Thx EE.

    Just in case anyone thinks I was being sneaky reading on the other forum and that they did not know I was reading I found the following from AG from a post there a while back:

    SA, waving at dear Qcmbr

    Seems they already knew.

  • perfect1
    perfect1

    OMG.

  • bohm
    bohm

    Its such a charming thing to have an alternative forum where you get to talk about "the atheists" and then, if they dont visit your forum, they dont know what they critisize and you can point that out, and if they do, "why do you have to read our forum?".

    damned if you do, damned if you dont.

    Aguest now has her own private echo-chamber for dispensing spiritual teachings from god, and also has the ability to go here, stir people up and galvanize the flock by the critisism, along with making sure she is in the center of everything all the time. Im not claiming its a cult, but it is a way of creating an us vs them situation.

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