Jesus wife fragment is a fake (page 27)

tec

Pathetic cop out

Just a fact.

And I think I remember a time when you used to argue/discuss/debate without some sort of condescending smear.

Peace,

tammy

cofty

Yes there was a time I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you might be open to genuine discussion as opposed to disingenous semantics

For 300 000 years or so modern humans have struggled to survive. These were people every bit as intelligent as you or I. People with the same potential for love and empathy and compassion, people with hopes and fears and joys and anguish.

Mostly they died very young from illness and infection and starvation. They lacked information and technology we take for granted. Knowledge that your omnipotent god had all along.

In all those centuries he did nothing to alleviate their plight.

This is a fact you need to factor in to your trite aplogetics.

tec

I am not blaming it on your god. I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is to believe that your god is merciful, generous and loving, while at the same time insisting it won't help out the starving children.

I am not insisting any such thing. I am stating that if you want to blame someone, then blame those who are responsible. Those whose deeds and decisions produced such suffering.

YOU were the one that said faithless prayers are worthless---NOT ME.

Actually, i never said that at all. Go back and look. I am sure that you will insist that I am playing word games... but I try to be very precise in what i say; so that my words cannot (honestly) be twisted to mean something other than what I said.

So what of the prayers of the starving children? YOU are the one that claims a god loves them, but it doesn't appear to be so.

Why does it not appear so?

We choose what happens here. We have that freedom... which we give to doing good, following Christ... or not. God is spirit, and this life is temporary. No matter what harm man does to one another; God can undo that, and His will, and His gift of life (through His Son) is eternal. I mean, why do you think that we are not eternal? Because of these things that we do. This dominon of man over fellow man; this disregarding of life. As long as we are not eternal; those who would do such harm cannot do so eternally. This is why Adam could not be allowed to reach out and eat from the tree of life, and live forever.

Someone with so much power, so much love, so many resources turns its back on the suffering---which ironically does seem to concentrate. Perhaps this god cares more about Americans than it does Africans. Yeah, you've had some hard times, some hungry times. Your god helped you. Are you comparing that to the swollen bellies of starving children who your god does not help?

I am not comparing anything. YOU are the one making comparisons.

MY POINT is that humans help each other with no input from any gods. Humans can be good. AND humans hurt each other, with no input from any gods.

So? I have never argued such a point? Just the opposite. Some have the law (of love) written naturally upon their hearts. Some do not. Some turn to Christ and God to help them know love and to help them know how they should treat fellow man.

What is the common denominator? HUMANS. Yeah, it's always been just us reaping the rewards and consequences of ours and other's decisions. Your god does not exist. It has never helped a single person. Other humans have helped other people. So you are correct. Humans are in charge, and humans can make the changes.

My God has helped. You just do not understand how he can help some, and not help some.

What is incredibly disgusting is to tell a starving child that there is a god who doesn't care about it, because YOU'VE had your prayers answered---your prayers of faith---and THEIRS have gone unheard. And then they die. Why aggravate the issue? Are they not suffering enough? Do you really need to rub the salt in their oozing sores? If we are all realists, I think human suffering is much easier to handle. We don't need a bunch of people running around spreading fairy tales to increase the suffering.

Yeah, that would be pretty disgusting... and a lie... and I have never said such a thing.

And you may think that if we are all realists that human suffering is much easier to handle... but that doesn't make it so. Suffering, without hope, is pretty damn unbearable. That is what you would offer those who are suffering... with your 'realism'. Which is also false, and a lie. The hope of God eases suffering. Taking that hope away leaves one empty. Some might feel better, but that is often because those some were lied to, to begin with.

Peace,

tammy

still thinking

We cannot have the right to choose how we live, and then blame someone else when our choices lead to the suffering of others.

That does not even make sense....

I choose how I live...I don't inflict suffering on others...but if there was a god, how would my choice lead to the suffering of others. What am I doing that is so bad that someone else deserves suffering because of me? What sort of god would behave like that? And apparently ignore their cries for help...because apparently I am causing their suffering......and still....this god would apparently answer MY prayers if only I would ask. Me! that causes others to have suffering.

tec

I choose how I live...I don't inflict suffering on others...but if there was a god, how would my choice lead to the suffering of others.

IF your choice(s) led to the suffering of others, then you could not blame God for the suffering of those others.

What am I doing that is so bad that someone else deserves suffering because of me?

No one said this.

It is not about 'deserving' to suffer. If someone makes a choice that causes someone else to suffer... then that is cause and effect. Not just little things, such as an individual thing... but wars, using some form of power supply around people even though such a thing causes cancer, etc, etc.

Peace,

tammy

still thinking

Taking that hope away leaves one empty.

Those children are empty regardless of your god or not....empty...and starving to death. Having faith does not stop their horrible painful death. But apparently, it will help me hear voices.

cofty

blame those who are responsible. Those whose deeds and decisions produced such suffering.

For hundreds of thousands of years mostly the weather was to blame and your god controlled that didn't he?

NewChapter

Ahhhh....so the little children have heaven to look forward to! Not such a big issue then. I stand corrected. That heaven thing has come in handy to keep the destitute content with their lot. Very convenient.

NewChapter

"The Chimney Sweeper," from Songs of Innocence

When my mother died I was very young,
And my father sold me while yet my tongue
Could scarcely cry " 'weep! 'weep! 'weep! 'weep!' "
So your chimneys I sweep & in soot I sleep.

There's little Tom Dacre, who cried when his head
That curled like a lamb's back, was shaved: so I said,
"Hush, Tom! never mind it, for when your head's bare
You know that the soot cannot spoil your white hair."

And so he was quiet, & that very night,
As Tom was a-sleeping he had such a sight!
That thousands of sweepers, Dick, Joe, Ned & Jack,
Were all of them locked up in coffins of black.

And by came an Angel who had a bright key,
And he opened the coffins & set them all free;
Then down a green plain, leaping, laughing, they run,
And wash in a river and shine in the Sun.

Then naked & white, all their bags left behind,
They rise upon clouds and sport in the wind.
And the Angel told Tom, if he'd be a good boy,
He'd have God for his father & never want joy.

And so Tom awoke; and we rose in the dark,
And got with our bags & our brushes to work.
Though the morning was cold, Tom was happy & warm;
So if all do their duty, they need not fear harm.

.............................................—William Blake

Jesus wife fragment is a fake

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