KNOWSNOTHING said: "If a prophet says something of God is going to happen (on a certain date/year or within a particular timeframe), and it doesn't happen, then they are false prophets. Can we agree with that basic definition?" -- Presuming that I can add what I've added in brackets so that it means something, absolutely. The key words here would be "is going to". The WT never said in 1975 etc. 'God WILL end this system of things/God IS going to' without admitting that it may not happen.. And for the last time.. until the (overlapping) generations prophecy is proven wrong, even your definition cannot apply.
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One 179 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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bobld
You can't argue with this mind control cult person.If he has a black bible in his hand and the GB/FDS/WBTS says,that it is green.To this person the bible is green and he will argue with you until the cows come home and say the GB/FDS/WBTS is right.
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The Quiet One
Really? Where have I said that I fully believe every single jw doctrine, or demonstrated that the WT can tell me what to think? Or that I am convinced they are definitely right about 1914 etc? Do you have a quote to prove this? Or maybe something to refute my argument as without basis? I'm presenting possible defenses.. nobody tells me what to think or I wouldn't be here, would I ? (Jw's are counselled not to even look at sites like this).. You have no proof of your claim, just a baseless assumption and a neat little label to apply to me so that you don't have to prove that what I've said is wrong.. It'd be nice if you could come back and add something to the discussion rather than just judging me, but don't worry, I won't hold my breath.. Also, maybe you could take a look at post guideline number 1 .. Unless you feel that calling somebody a 'mind control cult person' , with no supporting evidence whatsoever, is not simply an insult? Or provocative?
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Ucantnome
The Quiet One
"on a certain date/year or within a particular timeframe"
I find it a little difficult to read your posts but i think you added this and then said.
"The key words here would be "is going to". The WT never said in 1975 etc. 'God WILL end this system of things/God IS going to' without admitting that it may not happen.."
As you probably are aware the Awake at one point had this on the inside front cover.
"Most importantly, "Awake!" provides hope, giving you a basis for confidence in the Creator's promise of a new order of lasting peace and true security within our generation." Awake 1977 June 22.
They also in the in the Watchtower of 1974 page 51 said the following
"Unmistakably, the Bible pinpoints 1914 C.E. as the time when the "kingdom of the world" became the kingdom of the Lord God and of his Christ. Before the generation that was then alive passes off the scene, the "great tribulation" will strike."
This was as far as I am aware what they said about the generation.
"Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the "last days" began. Jesus was saying that those persons who were alive at the appearance of the 'sign of the lastdays' would still be alive when God brought this system to its end.
Even if we presume that younsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of "this generation" nearly 70years old today." Awake 1968 Oct 8 page 12
To me this seems to be a pretty defined timeframe.
On page 15 of the same Awake magazine they have a chart that states "61 years" from 1914 -1975 the end of 6000 years.
I think most would agree that from the bible we understand a man's life to be 70-80.
So going back to the Watchtower of 1974
"Before the generation that was then alive passes off the scene, the "great tribulation" will strike."
It seems to me to be "within a particular timeframe"
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Ucantnome
In the book "God's "Eternal Purpose" NowTriumphing for Man's Good" 1974 page 190 it states,
"By the fulfillment of God's "eternal purpose that he formed in connection with the Christ, Jesus our Lord." God's Seventh creative "day will end up blessed, sacred, sanctified."
On page 51 of the same book. The subheading states.
"EVENING" OF SEVENTH CREATIVE "DAY" BEGINS, 4026 B.C.E.
On page 131 of the same book the subheading states,
"MORNING OF THE SEVENTH CREATIVE "DAY" BEGINS, 526 B.C.E."
and goes on in the first sentence
"The first half or "evening" period of God's seventh creative "day" was now closing, 3,500 years from creation of Adam and Eve."
If we know the beginning and the halfway point of the length of a "day" we can with simple mathematics work out the end of the "day"
We also know that from the same book that there would be a thousand year reign of Christ when the Devil would be abyssed which would take
"...not as part of the war at Har-Magedon, but as a follow up of that war" page186
Going back to the Awake magazine of 1968 page 14 we find from 4026 to the autumn of 1968 we have had a total of 5,993 years now in 1974 when this book was published we would have had in 1974 5,999 years.
Now we have to have a thousand years of Christ reign and the abyssing of the Devil after Har-Magedon and before the end of 7000years which is the length given for the 7th day.
I think that's a pretty small timeframe left for the great tribulation to begin.
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The Quiet One
The generation that saw 1914 hasn't passed away yet, the understanding of the word generation has been refined, it COULD still be fulfilled. If not, the WT is a false prophet.
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mrsjones5
Straws
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Ucantnome
The generation that saw 1914 hasn't passed away yet, the understanding of the word generation has been refined, it COULD still be fulfilled. If not, the WT is a false prophet.
I am sorry but I cant see that after the failure of this to occur with in a defined generation the fact that it now has been redefined makes any difference.
Another point is this and maybe I've misunderstood and need to be corrected.
Without providing any quotes from the bible or the Watchtower I understood that to recieve the approval of Christ we needed to do good to his brothers.The primary way of doing good to his brothers was through joining them in the preaching work.
In other words my survival depended on preaching about God's Purposes. His Eternal Purpose. Or his Divine plan of the ages.
In the Book In the book "God's "Eternal Purpose" NowTriumphing for Man's Good" near to the beginning a reference is made to Pastor Russells chart of the Plan of the ages.
In 1943 the Watch Tower Society's book "The Truth Shall Make You Free" did away with the nonexistent extra 100 years in the period of the Judges and place the end of 6,000 years of man's existence in the 1970's.
Therefore it seems to me that my salvation was dependent on preaching this and it doesnt seem to have been true.
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iCeltic
I'd be interested in knowing how many people are still alive today who were born in 1899 (going on the being old enough, 15, to understand the sign)
They'd be 112, going on 113.
Quiet One - do you wholeheartedly believe in the new, over lapping generation understanding? Just a yes or a no would be lovely.