Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank

by AndersonsInfo 156 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  ScenicViewer

  @ James-Woods, who said...

  Everything changed upon learning that the Watchtower Society (WTS) had instructed elders and others in the congregations to comply with the working with children laws and to actually obtain their working with children cards. Getting the WTS to comply with the laws after three years of refusing to comply was quite an achievement for Steven Unthank. With this development who would not want to sit in on the next court hearing and witness the defense tactics the WTS and their legal team launched to get themselves out of the potential crisis they got themselves into.

  I do not understand the above statement - if the society instructed the elders and others to obtain the cards, then why is this lawsuit still going on?

  Is the Watchtower Society trying to get out of having them obtain the cards now?

  Unless I missed it, I didn't notice a response to your question. Yes, the Society did instruct the elders to get background checks, but this was done after the deadline to comply witht he WWC Act had passed, and even after a criminal court proceeding had taken place. The violation of law has already happened, even if the Society is now complying.

  I myself am curious to see how far this will go with criminal prosecutions. The court may say, in effect, 'Since you've complied now, even if it's a few months late, we'll let this go with a slap on the wrist and a fine.'

  I hope it goes farther than that.

  BTW, it isn''t a law suit, it's a criminal prosecution.
• 

  Listener

  Shrugged, it has been noted that the org removed Australia off their official media site only this year.
• 

  sizemik

  It's possible WT legal aren't used to this . . .

  Their record of activity has been more centred on pushing for recognition of religious rights in countries outside of the US . . . ie; they have been the well-prepared protagonist riding a white horse. Any legal defences they have been forced to confront have often been settled out of court and occurred almost exclusively in the US.

  Their mentality is largely one of "legally establishing the good news" Defending criminal charges is a whole new basket of fish . . . they can't buy or negotiate out of it . . . or drop it. Added to that, they constantly boast of their legal successes . . . I feel there is a fair degree of dismissive arrogance in how they view this case . . . ie; just a troublesome disgruntled ex-member who will eventually give up and dissappear. If so they've seriously miscalculated . . . and are going to be chasing the game not leading it.

  I'm quite confident of a serious arse-kicking heading their way.

  court may say, in effect, 'Since you've complied now, even if it's a few months late, we'll let this go with a slap on the wrist and a fine.'

  This may well be true . . . but if it is a successful prosecution it will leave some with a criminal record . . . and plenty of bad publicity.
• 

  Aussie Oz

  What has been said in those hearings cannot be unsaid

  what those JWs sitting in heard, they cannot forget either.

  No matter what happens from here on in, its a mess for the WT and damage has been done because WE will not let it die. Thay may want it to dissapear from memory, but this is not the 40s.

  This is the age of the internet!

  oz
• 

  wobble

  A huge vote of thanks to Steven Unthank, what a great job he has done getting this as far as it has got.

  I don't think, with the fact noted above about the Criminal record, that the WT can in any way be said to get away with just a slap on the wrist , even if they are not fined or whaever ,it is still a slap on the wrist and a serious Chinese Burn !
• 

  ScenicViewer

  court may say, in effect, 'Since you've complied now, even if it's a few months late, we'll let this go with a slap on the wrist and a fine.'

  This may well be true . . . but if it is a successful prosecution it will leave some with a criminal record . . . and plenty of bad publicity.

  Oh yes! I hadn't really thought of that. Having the criminal record will be nice, and deserved. (I know this is a criminal case, but for some reason I keep thinking of it in terms of a civil case.)
• 

  sizemik

  A huge vote of thanks to Steven Unthank, what a great job he has done getting this as far as it has got.

  Well said wobble . . . I can only second that.

  It should be remembered . . . not only could this be very damaging to the WTS . . . but a significant number of vulnerable children may well benefit from the action as well . . . WT$ Australia does not have a good record in that department. As I understand it, this has been Stevens primary motivation . . . the children.

  Well done to you Steven.
• 

  hotspur

  Yes - well said sizemik and wobble. Big vote of thanks to Steven from me too.

  Am I just starting to see the beginning of end for the WTS as we've known it? It's going to be hard to keep the cap on this one!
• 

  MrMonroe

  As anyone who knows Vincent Toole will tell you, he is no dummy. He is a very sharp-minded man with an excellent memory. Anything he said, or told his junior to say, would be very carefully calculated. (As anyone who has crossed paths with him will also know, he carries grudges a long, long time.) Before we start saying he's dug a big hole, we have to acknowledge that he will have thought this one through and figured he knows how to beat the charge.

  So here's the challenge: What will his defence strategy be?

  Firstly, he'll be counting on very little of this getting into the media -- and because so far it's been itsy bitsy stuff in a small town magistrates court, he's safe at this point. He'll be counting on discussions about the nature of the FDS never being reported. If the case did make it to the Supreme Court, there would probably be no discussion in the media of what to them would be a very minor side issue; their stories would be about the religion and its leaders being charged.

  Without those comments being in the public arena, the official injunction within the org will be "It's all just gossip and innuendo. Don't listen to that sort of talk."

  It'll certainly be a poser for the court system, but I'd say he'll be pushing as hard as he can to get as many of the defendants struck off before there's a committal to the Supreme Court, leaving just the WTS.

  So here's my best bet. He'll offer the following deal to the Director of Public Prosecutions, which may already be struggling to work out what the hell the FDS is and what its address is: The WTS of Australia will plead guilty, advising that its previous negligence had been based on an erroneous understanding of the law, and assuring the court that it understands its legal obligation and is now complying with the law. In exchange, it will ask that identical charges against all other entities be dropped. Simple. And there will be no need for discussion in a court in Melbourne (where media may be lurking) about what the FDS is. The DPP will take the easy road. Trials cost money.

  There will then be a general acceptance within the organisation that the charge was the result of apostate trouble-making, that Jehovah's organisation was being targeted by Satan but that Satan had failed ... and that no one should discuss the issue; certainly criticism of the society would never be uttered by any Witness.

  Vincent will have swallowed his pride (he, after all, was the one insisting in the media that they were NOT required to get WWC checks) and he will then bide his time until he can exact revenge on those who caused this problem in the first place.
• 

  cantleave

  So what can WE do to disseminate this?