Why Some Cannot "See" that the Bible is NOT the Word of God

by AGuest 98 Replies latest jw friends

  • Awen

    A very wonderful post AGuest (Peace be within and with you).

    Seems as though I recall you at one point told me (or it could have been someone else) that after reading the Bible, the best thing I could do is throw it away. I understand what you meant by that. The Law of Moses was a tutor leading to Christ and Christ is a tutor leading to YHWH who is Love. I could never understand why the WTBTS repeatedly referenced the Law of Moses when it's clearly stated "Christ is the end of the Law". The Law was intended to show the Israelites that they couldn't approach God on their own, that is to say, sin and innate human selfishness would always get in the way.

    Jesus was very clear on the matter of where the Law fits into the lives of Israelites (not Gentiles who have 'adopted' it in our modern times) and he was very clear that after his death, the Law would no longer apply to anyone. But until that time, the Law was in full force and so he rebuffed those who charged that he came to destroy it, saying that heaven and earth would sooner pass away than the Law would (in the context of before he died,which people seem to not understand).

    So by dying a sacrificial death and keeping the Law, Christ did two things (among many others). He showed that the Law could be kept by a perfect man, in my opinion showing Adam and Eve could have worshipped YHWH with no problems had they not been selfish by taking something that didn't belong to them. Had they truly shown Love towards YHWH, then none of this would have ever happened. The second thing that was shown was that in order to be Christ-like, we needed to dispense with the Law of Moses and instead embrace the Law of Christ. That is to say, Love, not unbending rules should be the yardstick for how we deal with others.

    I agree with your statements that Paul at first tried to put people back under the Law. I myself don't consider Paul to be an Apostle (except perhaps in his own mind). Remember though that Jesus said "he that is not against us, is for us." We only have the testimony of Paul about his conversion and a disciple, Ananias. The accounts in Acts 9 relate how he was converted and that Jesus said he was to be a chosen intrument to preach to the nations, nowhere in the account is Paul named an Apostle by Jesus. It would seem unlikely that Paul would go from being a neophyte to being an Apostle almost overnight. This Apotleship seems to be a title he took upon himself so that others might recognize his "authority". It seems to me he missed the point of Jesus words at Mark 10:44 "and who ever wants to be first among you , must be the slave of everyone else." I think this is because he had not read these words yet and was still behaving like a Pharisee with all their concern over titles and authority over the people. When he learned that the Law of Christ is about Love and not rules, his teachings and personality changed.

    The letters of Paul show that he never met Jesus, never once does he quote from him, nor does he reference any of the parables Jesus used. It also mentions his apparent disdain for some of the Apostles, calling them "super fine", which to me showed some jealousy as well. In Revelation 21:14 it says the names of the twelve (not thirteen) Apostles are written on the foundation stones of the Hoy City, New Jerusalem (sprititual Israel). Also the Apostles didn't trust Paul which seems odd because the Holy Spirit would have told the Apostles that they had nothing to worry about. Considering he IS addressing the Apostles and not disciples when he calls them "super fine" seems to reinforce this conjecture. It's not until the Gospels were written around 90-95 CE that Paul's letters change. Most of Paul's letters were written before that time and this helps to explain why his letters were so very different than what Jesus and his directly appointed Apostles wrote. Time and again they speak of Love, whereas Paul at first speaks about the Law of Moses. It's only after the Gospels being written down and circulated do we see a change in his writings. So in my opinion there should be some sort of preface to his letters to better explain this problem with when the writings (Pauls letters vs Gospels) were written and circulated, but there isn't and it causes much confusion.

    I also agree that the church of Christ (or Temple) isn't something tangible. That is to say it's not a visible earthly organization. If there was a GB in the 1st Century then why did Paul write all his letters to the various congregations and not leave it up to the the 1st Century GB? Also why is it in Revelation when Jesus admonishes/chastises the churches in Asia does he not also chastise the supposedly then existing GB? Because there never was one. The Church is made up of the people themselves. It's not a building or an organization. There is no need to be under someone else's headship (other than Christ's). Humans are imperfect and prone to corruption. Jesus told us that the only teacher we would ever need would be the Holy Spirit. Nothing is ever said about a man-made earthly organization doing any of this. Why does the Kingdom rule from Heaven (where neither rust consumes nor thieves break in) rather than on the earth where dwell imperfect beings? This very idea of a heavenly ruled kingdom shows that the WTBTS is completely in error.

    Personally I think the GB and those who persecute their fellow Christians (and everyone else for that matter) because of their own self-righteousness (and adherence to rules, rather than love) are going to have a lot to answer for. I suspect many of the anointed will have their promised "crowns" taken from them and they will be destroyed by YHWH for their presumptousness. Matthew 7:22 will then be fulfilled.

    May you have peace.


  • moshe
    their lack of faith which resulted in repeated rebellion

    Human nature being what it is, people (Jews in this case) do get upset when they are promised something like a fabulous land of milk and honey and a Nation & Kings that will be so powerful that all nations will bow down to them and it just never comes to pass. The excuse is that, you just aren't doing enough= more faith and it will happen.

  • OnTheWayOut

    The Bible doesn't mention Flying Spaghetti Monster at all. Of course it is made up nonsense from men.

  • myelaine

    dear AGuest...

    the demon that clings to you is BOUND to the written word of God from genesis to revelation...and each time you use the bible to teach anything it is a gentle REBUKE to you in the name of Jesus Christ...matthew 16:19

    love michelle

  • Awen

    On the other hand I will share something I've only thought about and never shared with anyone. It causes me no end of confusion on the topic of the Bible/Judaism/Christianity.

    I sometimes think that the Bible is nothing more than a history book and a collection of mythologies meant for the people of Israel only. Consider that the New Testament was written 2,000 years ago and to them the world was very small. The nation of Israel was the center of the world (in their eyes) and everything written in it is from their point of view. This makes me think of the "Book of Going Forth by Day" (The Egyptian Book of the Dead) and how all the rituals and such are written from an Egyptian viewpoint. Never does it enter into the Egyptian mind that their viewpoint is somehow flawed. Their viewpoint and commentaries are the only ones that matter to them. Such seems to be the case of the Bible. You can look at it from a strictly Israelite point of view and how everything relates to them, or you can read the scriptures and say "hey, Jesus was talking about everyone when he said "go therefore and make disciples of all the people of all the nations, etc" He was talking globally. But is this simply not an assumption on our part? I have done a lot of research into the personage of Jesus. Some say he existed, some say not. Some show similarities to the Roman God Mithra (virgin birth, 12 Apostles, rising from the dead) and say that the Chritian writers merely co-opted many already existing religions to further their own goals. There exists very little secular evidence for the person of Jesus, only the influence he had on others and second hand accounts. It's so very hard to put together the pieces of evidence and decide if he really existed at all. Outside of the Bible, there is almost no mention of Jesus at all. Yet that isn't true of other historical figures. Why is that?

    Why does the Bible only exist in fragment form and not a complete set of books? I would think that if YHWH wanted us to know it all, it would be available to us, but it's not. We have copies of copies who's literary value is called into questioned by the discovery of scribal errors. Consider the Gospels were written 40 years after the death of Jesus. Who can recall events that far back with any degreee of accuracy?

    Some might say his influence on the world shows that he existed. Yet that can be chalked up to how his followers spread the Gospels, usually by politics and the point of the sword (both of which Jesus opposed) and this is still being done. I've looked into the Deluge of Noah's Day and I get conclicting accounts. Not only from Theologians, but from Geologists, Botanists, etc. They all seem to have a different opinion and different "evidence." I would think that if any of it were true, there would be concrete irrefutable evidence. But there isn't. It seems that it all comes down to faith and faith alone. That is a problem for me as my exit from the WTS destroyed any faith I had and now I'm left with only questions.

    I can debate a Bible topic easily enough and put forth a hypothesis based upon my own understanding of the text. But when it comes down to whether what's in the Bible is true or not then I'm left with doubt and questions. Doubt for me doesn't mean something is wrong, it simply means I haven't found the answer. I find myself arguing many times in favor of Jesus and many times against religion. I don't really have any beliefs, just a lot of ideas. I don't know if Jesus is the Son of YHWH, or YHWH himself or a flying spaghetti monster in human form. I just don't know. I do believe (the one belief I do have) there is a God. What form or how He/She interacts with us and how we are to interact in return is what baffles me.



  • AGuest

    Greetings, dear Awen, and may you have peace! I have read your posts and thank you for both. Unfortunately, I'm away from my computer so I ask your patience as to your questions in the second one, which I will respond to if and as my Lord permits. Again, peace to you! Your servant and a slave of Christ, SA

  • Awen
  • AGuest

    Offspring of a viper. It is YOUR mind that has been blinded... by the one you continually show to be YOUR "father". It is out of love that I even refer to the Bible... for the minds of UNBELIEVERS. Which used to include you. The darkness in YOUR heart, however, born of your insatiable desire to be my "teacher" (which is absolutely ridiculous as you haven't a CLUE as to Who and what the TRUTH is)... is manifest... and continuously leads you to blaspeme against the Holy Spirit, the One leads and teaches ME, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MishaJAH). Follow your father, then, but get behind me. For the MOST Holy One of Israel Himself will rebuke YOU... soon enough. And He won't use the Bible to do it. Since you obviously have no regard for Him... OR His Son... I can only that they show mercy on you... body AND spirit. As I am nothing but one who listens to a demon, however (which is utterly absurd as (1) demons don't mislead - indeed, THEY believe but are MISLED; and (2) a house divided against itself cannot stand and so why would a DEMON tell people about Christ)... then (1) no point in ME hoping for God's mercy upon you, and (2) why did YOU open thread (if it was someome YOU believe speaks from a demon?) Often WORSE than hypocrisy... is jealousy... which is ROTTENESS... TO THE BONE. It was an underlying flaw in the spirit of your father... which he failed to cull out... in your brother, Cain... your brother, Judas Iscariot... and in you. Like them, YOU should have gotten a grasp on it. Because you didn't it has led YOU... as with them... into greater sin. I should have known... you would never learn. Again, get behind me. A slave of JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH... And thus, HIS Christ, SA

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus! No one else saw the light or heard the voices. Paul was a witness to the Risen Christ,, the present Christ experienced. The apostles seem so lackluster to be "the apostles." Reportedly, Pentecost transformed them. The apostles of the legends, such as Thomas travelling to India, seem very different than the apostles hanging around Galilee.

  • transhuman68

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