The problem here really is POV (may you all have peace!), which, like opinions, we all have, and, like anonymity and NON-anonymity, we are all entitled to.
BP (peace to you!), please don’t think I’m picking on you (I’m not, truly), but you and I see very little in the same context, at least as far as what we each post on this Board. A few things (which makes us both go, "WOW!") but not much. I realize, however, that this matter is "sensitive" to/for you and you are certainly entitled to your feelings and opinions on it. However, I want to show you what I mean and I will use your latest comments do demonstrate, if I may. Again, this is not an attack on you (not at ALL!) but an attempt to show just HOW different OUR two POV’s are… and so perhaps why there are two extremely polarized camps (which may never agree) on this issue:
Those who "stick their neck out" are merely the visible ones, but it doesn't make them any more special than the person who has lost contact with all their family but choses to be anonymous.
I think that’s only partially true. People who stick their neck out are VISIBLE – folks know WHO they talking to/about. Which tends to make it more PERSONAL. And make the comments… good and bad… more personal. When one is anonymous, however, it’s harder for others to truly know where they’re coming from (i.e., if that’s REALLY how they feel/what they meant – “I can’t remember if dear Besty (peace to you!) said that in another thread, but I CERTAINLY know that Randy (peace to you, as well!) said THIS in another thread"). Anonymity tends to create blind “holes”… which is one of the reasons many folks want to BE anonymous: they don’t WANT anyone putting the pieces of the puzzle that is “them” together and figuring out who they REALLY are. In many cases, the “person” posting HERE… is NOT the same “person” off the Board. LOTS of folks learned how to live “double” lives while a JW… and many are still doing it. And many know this and so anonymity contributes to the perception of that. Those who “stick their next out” and REMOVE their anonymity, however, tend to have moved on past whatever fears/reasons cause others to want to be anonymous... which does make them a bit “special” (as compared to those who cannot/will not do so… yet).
I also think that, due to WTBTS indoctrination and resultant baggage, some have a bit of a problem with anyone considered “special” by others. What is that, though? I don’t think it has anything to do with anything external, but really originates internally.
Many here have done something in regards to speaking out against the WTS, but they haven't been as public as Ray Franz or Barb Anderson. They're just as brave and couragious as the Andersons and Franzs of this world - just quieter.
Yes, I agree with you here. And I also don't tend to "revere" people, no matter what they may have done. I figure, they did what they OUGHT to have done. I don’t get, however, that anyone has ever said anything to the contrary here… or elsewhere... as to others being "just as brave and courageous"... even though "quieter." If they're quiet, folks usually don't KNOW about they bravery and courage... so AS to consider them. At all... let alone as "special." Right??
I have done my own work with family members to help them out - but I don't go about blowing my trumpet about it. To me, it's personal business.
But that’s YOU, how YOU feel. Others don’t necessarily feel the same way. And the whole “not blowing a trumpet” is much of a “christian” thing, isn’t it, in line with Christ’s words in Matt. 6? Many no longer ascribe to such teaching or thinking, particularly those who profess to be atheist. How, then, can you try and hold them to a standard they no longer recognize… just because you hold yourself to it? It is this self-holding that drives your aversion; however, it need not do so. Because your only concern, if you DO ascribe to that teaching… should be YOU… and YOUR adherence to it… while setting the EXAMPLE for others through YOUR conduct. Not taking issue with them for not adhering to the same conduct. Right?
And I have the right to be as anonymous as I wish - or not.
Yes, you certainly do! As to they, as to NOT being anonymous. Right? That their NOT being causes some others to consider them “special” is… what? Why does that bother YOU? Surely, some who DO choose to be anonymous are considered “special” as well... by those who KNOW [of] them. If one is NOT so considered, however… how is that the fault of those who ARE considered so… so as to malign THEM? They're not calling/considering themselves "special" - others are. True, they may be making a way for this by no longer hiding... but it's not like they say, "Hey, I'm gonna put myself out there, so you all better consider me special!" T
They put themselves out there, perhaps in a big way, so that others know the truth about the WTBTS. Although you may be doing it "quietly" and on a smaller scale, aren't you doing the SAME thing, with regards to those YOU help? Surely, THEY know who you are... and are thankful for your help... so that to THEM... you are "special"? Did you hold yourself out that way, though? Or did it just occur because they are GRATEFUL for the help you gave them?
If we all remained anonymous, BP, who would trust us? WHY would they trust us? People who HAVE nothing to hide… HIDE nothing. Ms. Anderson, Mr. Waters, Mr. Franz, et al., no longer have anything to hide… or anyone to hide FROM. When that is the case, you DON’T hide/remain anonymous – you “stick your neck out.” That people APPRECIATE this... and consider them "special" for doing so is... human. Really. Very typical, actually.
You don't post with your name, and you rarely post these days, so yes, you are anonymous.
Ummmmm… I don’t post with my name (I use “AGuest”)… and I think, given the number average, I post less than dear Besty… and yet, I am no way anonymous. Virtually everyone here knows my name. If they don't, it's easily known as it's in my member profile. In addition, I’ve put it on threads so that folks use it quite frequently. Posting by an avatar ID does not necessarily make one anonymous.
My point is that anyone can be anonymous and have the right to be so.
Yes. And, in the alternative, NOT be. And has THAT right, yes?
I do not see anyone who randomly posts rubbish for the sake of it. Perhaps you'd like to give us an example of the type of posts that you mean?
See, now, I didn’t see where Besty stated anything about rubbish. He addressed the issue of posting with ad hominems… while hiding behind anonymity. True, such are rubbish, but a very specific type of rubbish. Your response, however, is a diversion… and attempt to deflect what he really pointed to, without addressing that issue.
So you see, you and I have entirely different POVs on these issues. BUT... that doesn't mean we can't discuss it... without taking it personally and allowing our feelings to be hurt... even if ultimately, we agree to disagree. No one agrees with everyone on everything (well, except me, as to my Lord, but that's another thread, isn't it? ).
I'm not trying to say that your opinions/feelings here don't count. They do. BUT... perhaps they are coming from a place of sensitivity that you aren't yet aware of because I see a LOT of that (sensitivity) in your posts/responses. And I understand it. I'm just not sure YOU do... yet.
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
