by wobble 277 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
If all will be saved what is meant by "saved, if" and "in vain"?
Peace
@myelaine: so, you're saying free will didn't exist until Adam and Eve sinned? Did I understand that correctly?
Anyone see any loopholes, please point those out. This was the first atheological argument I made up by myself, so it may be flawed and I appreciate your criticism. Peace.
Since you're asking: I think the loophole would be thinking that God does not have free will to do either good or evil. God could destroy us all if he wanted to, and be done with it and us. But love (what is inside - or rather, what IS Him) prevents him from doing so. His nature is love, and He does not act outside of His nature.
Does the thought that God does not (or even cannot) act against his nature, and do evil, somehow makes him less than his creation? Or does that actually make him superior?
We don't usually strive to be something inferior than what we already are. I guess it depends on how you define superior and inferior.
Peace,
Tammy
dear Pika_Chu...
God gave all sentient beings free will...satan had free will too.
love michelle
@Tammy: perhaps superior in virtue, but not in "empowerment." Then again, choosing good or evil is not the only kind of empowerment one may have. I figured most rebuttals would be because of the definition of empowerment and the definition of free will. I think my argument would work, given some popular concepts of what "free will" and "empowerment" mean. But the argument DOES depend on how we define those terms.
And the ability to destroy us is restricted by his superior virtue. Depending on how you read into that, of course. Does he simply choose not to out of love? Does love restrict or inhibit, in his case?
To Bob1999:
13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
You quoted 1 and 2 of 1 Cor. 15. Paul is showing that if there is no gospel or good news and if Christ is not resurrected, then faith is in vain because without Christ's resurrection, there can be no oneraised from the dead at all.
Paul continues, Christ has indeed been raised from the dead. And who will be resurrected and made alive? Verse 22 gives you the answer.
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23
The entire chapter deals with the question of whether the gospel is truth or not. Whether Christ was resurrected or not. Because without it no one will live and with it ALL will live.
@Michelle: but, if by free will, we mean "the ability to choose to serve God or not," and God cannot choose not to serve himself, and thus does not have that option of "sinning," then how can he give that which he does not have to lower life forms? And how come we can be good or bad, but only he can be good? If we consider him the source of good, and the devil the source of evil, then why get mad at Satan and Adam and Eve for opening up those options? Furthermore, if he did not create evil, he did not create free will. The rebellious creation did. And if they did, then free will does not originate with God, but with the lower, disobedient life forms.
dear Pika_Chu...
you said: " but, if by free will, we mean "the ability to choose to serve God or not," "...
actually the case was... will you choose to serve your own best interests or not.
love michelle
@Michelle: can God choose NOT to act in HIS own best interest? Sorry if I sound like an arrogant jerk; I'm usually not this aggressive. But I wanted to test my argument.
If God is going to put all enemies, and the last enemy is death, under Jesus' feet, then no one can be dead anymore. And notice that chapter does not mention a hell or lake of fire or everlasting destruction. It mentions all die through Adam and all will live through Jesus. Paul is admonishing the believers, that how much more so would it make no sense for them to doubt the resurrection.
