I need a show of hands: who believes the Bible and to what extent?

by Terry 206 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Heaven

    The bible has also done a great injustice to male/female relationships. It completely unbalanced the male/female energies on the planet. It set up a patriarchal society that, much to its shame, endures to this day. Never mind the bloodshed and rape in the name of God and his laws!

    Hadit, you've described here a couple of my wake up thoughts regarding the Bible as a teenager. I witnessed my Mom allowing headship and the resulting miserableness it cause her. Subjugation is not loving and therefore, conflicts with Christ's teaching of Love. Same with murder and rape. These things all smack of men (and specifically Middle Eastern men), and not a higher, loving, enlightened power.

  • OnTheWayOut

    The Bible actually exists. I can see it. It is "the Word of God" in the sense that it was invented by men who also invented the God of the Bible. But in that same sense, this egg definitely came before the chicken. Oh, YHWH existed before the Bible, but not in such defined terms. The Bible was born of the god of the Hebrews until the Bible took over and created the God in a new image.

    It's kind of like Santa Claus' existence before the great Coca-Cola marketing campaign of the 1930's. Santa existed in myths, but his look was not clearly defined. But once Coke decided that his suit was always red and white (Coke colors) and they plastered that image everywhere, then Coke was Santa's soda instead of Santa belonging to Coke.

    Similarly, the history within the Bible is not reality. But don't let that stand in the way of what is popular demand. The Bible took over and what it says is now true, regardless of accuracy. If some pesky facts get in the way of that truth, then the Bible must have been teaching us something in it's "slight" turn from reality. Because it was in the past and no matter what we find in the ground that contradicts the Bible, we must accept the Bible as history until the time-machine is actually invented, maybe even afterward. That way, we can benefit from whatever the Bible is teaching, which is way more important than accuracy.

  • snowbird
    This isn't internally consistent--it's self-contradictory. How can you claim both to know the true message of the bible, and that it's divinely inspired, while admitting that the channel which has brought you the message is inherently flawed?

    I can make that claim because the Message continues to be proven true, daily, globally. The writers of the Bible may have screwed up on some points (who doesn't?), but they never swerved from that.

    Are the men who compiled the Bible itself inerrant, in your opinion?

    Of course not!

    The position of mainstream christianity is that the WERE--but only because they were in the thrall of holy spirit!

    Uh huh. I'm not necessarily interested in the position of mainstream Christianity.

    1.If the Holy Spirit inspired, guided or preserved the Bible why is fragmented into chaotic debris in no way whole, unblemished and uncorrupt by human interventions??

    My belief is that Holy Spirit made sure the Message got to us.

    2. If it is merely human--how is it a guide in communicating facts about Jesus or reliable and exclusive data about our role in believing things about what he is supposed to have done?

    See my answer to #1.


  • ProdigalSon

    designs, these stories of Jesus are all completely symbolic. The deep meaning of these stories is lost in the literalism. A "Pharisee" in kabbalistic allegorical terms is ANYONE without a fully awakened consciousness, because his egos restrict gnosis. This is the "mark of the beast", a blotch on the forehead that blocks the third eye. That would mean that we are all Pharisees to a greater or lesser extent, and its not our fault. We are in the process of evolving and awakening. There is no eternal destruction for any human being, only their egos. We can use the teachings of Jesus and other Masters to awaken consciousness, or we can look to them as saviors and guarantee that we'll have to come back and do this all over again until we "get it".

    The good news: Our "blindness" really began to be alleviated when we left the Watchtower. It can only get better from here.

    I really do understand your animosity at the Jesus that has been presented by Christianity and its horrific track record, but it is definitely not the Christ that I have come to know. It has nothing to do with a man, but a message.

    If I may, I would like to suggest a couple of books, both pretty light reading.... "The Gospel of Thomas, Annotated and Explained", by Stevan L. Davies and "The Third Jesus" by Deepak Chopra.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    I believe the message of the Bible to be inspired, namely, we are mortally flawed creatures who are desperately in need of a Savior.

    This goes back to the first page and I apologize if digging it back up bothers anyone. This is one of the biggest problems with the common Christian perception of the Bible's message, in my opinion.

    The Bible's message, if anything, is NOT that we are mortally flawed and need a Savior. It is that God feels that we ARE WORTH SAVING beyond the length of time our physical bodies normally endure. The "we need saving" doctrine is closely tied to the mistranslation we see in Borg Lit as "undeserved kindness." It's bunk. A god of justice gives people EXACTLY WHAT THEY DESERVE and if there is saving beyond the end of our physical lives it is because we are worth it.

    So where does the "we need a savior" message come from? The power-hungry religious organizations of the world. "God loves you even though you are unworthy of love," gives religions, as proxies for God, power over you because your esteem is squashed to the point where you're grateful that God would even consider looking at you. But the Bible is full of examples of how we ARE WORTHY to God, and these are conveniently ignored in an effort to maintain church/Borg power.

    Of course, if God didn't write the Bible, then my interpretation is no more true than anyone else's.

  • JimmyPage

    I think all religious books have some teachings of value, some damaging teachings, some history, and a whole lot of myth.

  • Robdar

    I have mixed feelings about the Bible.

    I am certain that most scripture should not be interpreted literally; however, I do believe if looked at from the Jungian theory of the "collective unconscious" while considering the possible archetypal meanings and symbols, we can find much intrigue, amusement and a good foundation for ethical conduct.

    There is no divine communication between God and man.
    It is a fiction of the church.

    I politely disagree. I have often felt a connection with something other than myself that I can only describe as God. The presence of this other being is warm, caring, and wise. I can actually at times feel it directing me. When I follow It's direction, good things seem to happen.

    You are probably rolling your eyes about now and thinking me a fool. I only wish I had the ability to better explain to you that which I am trying to explain.


  • snowbird

    So where does the "we need a savior" message come from?

    Genesis 3:15 I'm declaring war between you and the Woman,
    between your offspring and hers.
    He'll wound your head,
    you'll wound his heel." The Message Bible


  • DagothUr

    God needed to be invented by man so that man may have someone who invented him.

  • PSacramento

    I believe that if a person choose to study the bible that they should indeed study it.

    Study who wrote it, why and to whom it was directed.

    Study the history of when it was written, study the historocity of it.

    And to do that one must study the works of the scholars oN BITH sides of the arguments and debates and not just what appelas to Us and our preconceived notions of the bible.

    In short, to study the bible is to study the 1000's of years of history of a people, to study the bible is to study philosohy, history, mythology, theology and so much more.

    Unless one is doing that or has done that, one has not studied the bible and if you haven't studied it, do you have what it takes to decide anything about it?

    We all have opinions about the bible and that is what they are, no more, no less.

    To quote CS lewis about what we think about God ( or the bible for that matter):

    "A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell."
    C.S. Lewis

    In other words, just because we want the bible to be something, that doesn't chage what the bible is.

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