Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 310 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    Anonymous4:

    First look at their foundation. The entire organization is based on dates and today 1914 is the one that stands out the most. Look at their history and read their first president's book called Thy Kingdom Come which is also known as Study in the Scriptures vol 3. You can find it and many others here.

    Now what do jws tell you about 1914? That the Bible Students pointed to 1914 decades before it happened! So what does 1914 mean to jws today?

    1. Jesus' invisible return

    2. Start of Last Days

    3. Jesus becoming King in heaven

    4. End of Gentile Times

    This is all based on critical date of Destruction of Jerusalem in 607BC when they begin the count of 7 times to arrive in 1914. And because of 1914 they teach that the faithful and discreet slave was chosen in 1919 after the inspection of God's house which occurred in 1918. So you read Thy Kingdom Come or early history and you find this.

    1. Jesus returned in 1874 which teaching officially was changed in 1942? (salvation book) some 50 years they taught this while most jws will imply that at the beginning they thought 1874 was the return but don't realize that this was taught for some 50 years.

    2. Last days started in 1799, IF I remember correctly it was based on the idea that the pope was taken captive by the French in 1797. Second advent movement idea. This was changed somewheres in late 1920s or early 1930s.

    3. Jesus became king in heaven in 1878 3.5 years after 1874 which was supposed to coincide with 3.5 years of his ministry. Rutherford changed thins in early 1920 to 1914.

    4. Gentile times to end in 1914 based on 606BC, pyramid of Giza passage calculations and 40 years from 1874. You can do secular research on destruction of Jerusalem and you'll find there is no proof for 607BC but tons of evidence for 586/7BC which wts tries to deny by claiming not enough evidence had been discovered or that historians are lying or that Babylonians didn't include kings in their records which they didn't like. WTS gives no proof of anything only just attack what is known. Straw man arguments.

    All this you can read in the above mentioned book. So just from this you can conclude that Jesus never returned, and their leaders were never chosen as God's special people, and that wts isn't God's chosen organization. WTS wasn't the first to teach no hell fire, they also weren't the first to teach there is no trinity.

    Their teachings change as the religion needs them to change for their benefit. Latest major change is the meaning of generation! Because Jesus said in Matthew that the generation won't pass away until all the things occur wts and since the beginning taught started in 1914 the 2014 is really close so the need was necessary to push the end further so today's meaning of generation is that those who seen 1914 and were in contact with younger anointed where they "passed the torch" as it were so the anointed who never seen 1914 are of the same generation as those who seen 1914. Does that make sense????? They redefine meaning of words and phrases when they need to.

    It's true that when you study with them they are nice, and when you go to the kh they are nice - this is called love bombing where they want to show you how happy they are. But once you stop your study you will be like the rest of the world destined to die and bad association BUT you will not be as bad in their eyes as those who got baptized and later left their religion. Apostates are shunned to the highest degree as if we are a plaque. Funny thing is, is they also shun believers who needed to get punished for some wrongdoing.

    Now you said you are 19 and young. WTS loves young people because they are inexperienced and are more ignorant of wts ways. They also like people who are elderly and those who are going through major trauma in their lives because these are the people who are weak and more likely are going to accept the idea that they will never die and live forever on earth with young bodies and will see resurrected loved ones. WTS sells an idea which appeals to a lot of people. If you get baptized, you know, higher education is not good because it keeps you away from the meetings and keeps you busy from service. You know the friends outside of wts are not your friends but associates that you shouldn't really hang out since they are bad association for you and they will die at Armageddon so what do you think you will need to do to keep your faith strong and be able to make it through Armageddon? Yes, cut off bad habits which your worldly friends are, your family which you may associate is not going to be helpful to your spirituality so your new family will be inside the congregations just as Jesus said you will gain brothers, sisters and mothers and fathers.......blah blah blah blah.....

    Do your research and ask your conductor questions but do a full research so you understand the question you ask because they will tell you:

    1. That's old light and light is progressive (remember that truth doesn't flip flop)

    2. Apostates are lying or telling you half truths. (ask for their full explanation on their understanding of the truth)

    3. Flat out denial.

    Most witnesses don't know their history outside of what they've been told by wts in their life time as a witness. Thus jw who was in wts for 10 years will not know what occurred in 1975 other than what other jws told him who may have not been there themselves but heard it from others. WTS troof is twisted so make sure you examine the real truth and understand it when you ask them questions. Do proper research from WTS publications and examine the court documents that are available. You owe it to yourself to know the entire truth and after you do all the research and want to become jw, at least you will be informed and good luck in your new life.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Are JW's that bad?

    Well, they are hypocritical and are ok with shunning their own family.

    Are the doctrines that bad?

    People die because of them, familes are destroyed and they glorify child deaths:

    Are they that bad?

    Yes.

  • OBVES
    OBVES

    If you think I am wrong quote me another one instead .And show me why do you think they surpass Jehova's Witnesses.

    The only exception can be some individuals that don't don't belong to any earthly christian organization.

    Tha fact the prediction for 2011 AD is in place in a very strong way and Jehovah's Witnesses are covered by the period of 120 years we had in our endtime era in the likeness of Noah's days testifies in their favor.

    http://www.focusonthebible2011.com

    -Times when Jesus and his first disciples lived and taught a new true religion :

    7 BC - 2 BC - 29 AD - 33 AD - 36 AD .

    1879 AD - 1884 AD - 1914 AD - 1918 AD - 1921 AD .

    The exact copy of the time when Jesus and his first disciples lived and taught .

    The International Bible Student Association is linked to it undisputably.

    The name watchtower links both the International Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses which must be their legitimate successors.

    Jehovah's Witnesses must have also a 7-year period :

    1935 AD - 1939 AD - 1942 AD.

    And the individual faith has its 7-year period :

    1984 AD - 1988 AD - 1991 AD .

    Go to alt.religion.jehovahs-witn and find my one post there by OBVES and retrieve earlier posts by clicking on " more options" and then

    on " find more messages by this author ".

    When you quote another religious organization please use the dates that can link them to the times of Jesus and his first disciples lived and taught the true religion.

  • Hoffnung
    Hoffnung

    Hello A4,

    Appearances can give you incorrect impressions. JW seem to be happy people believing the message in the bible. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Their prime message: "you can live forever in paradise on earth", is not christian. You can give any JW a very hard time by asking this: please prove from the christian Greek Scripture alone, the earthly hope. They cannot, because it is not there. the word paradise earth is not in the bible. the word paradise in the greek scriptures either refers to heaven, which you can verify by its context, or in one occasion it is not specified, and this is where Jesus assure to the criminal next to him: you will be with me in paradise. Jesus went were? you got the picture. The only biblical support for this they have are in Psalms and Isaiah, and they ALL, refer to the restoration in the promised land. the hebrew word used in Psalm 37 means 'country' and not 'earth'. For any other explanations they HAVE to rely on their 144.000 anointed versus Great Crowd teaching, which is also utterly not christian.

    To go on a little bit on this: John 10:16 was speaking about uniting the jewish and gentile christians. Jesus never used an earthly organisation, and never will. He does not need them, he has the biggest army, the angels, and the Supreme Power, Holy Spirit. No need to use religions. The biggest group he gives his support to is a local congregation or church, and of course individually. Of course an organization can be ocupied with providing bibles and other bible explanatory publications, but they can NEVER claim they act as a communication channel between you and GOD. Only Jesus can do that. Please download the Study edition in PDF of the WATCHTOWER of 15SEP2010 on www.jw.org (their own website), and find out for yourself how arrogant they treat their flock.

    In the 1st 2 chapters of 'what does the bible really teach', their basic study book, you are encouraged already to take the 1st steps to let go of all your friends you might have. Any questioning from your friends' side to study with JW is a personal attack from the Devil using your friends. JW are encouraged to make no friends in the 'world', as this world and all the people will be destroyed in Armaggedon very soon. This very thing, by the way is repeated very often: the solution to man's problems is THE MURDER OF 7 BILLION PEOPLE by the God of LOVE. That is a nice prospect to go and preach to mankind every weekend, isn't it? You are looking forward to it? Because that is what you will end up doing.

    The teaching that Armaggedon is right behind the corner is also ruining lives! My father turned down his university education when he became a Witness and is earning just the minimum to survive already for over 30 years. My parents never could afford to buy a house, they could not put money aside for supplementary pension. I myself never made real plans for the future as it would never come.

    If you believe this is it, there is many more, like: secret manuals for elders, an entire hierarchy designed to push everybody continuously to the limits of their mental and physical abilities to preach the 'good news'. (By the way, check in your bible what was the good news that Paul preached and compare it what Jehovah's Witnesses preach today). The real heavy price though, you will pay on the exit. There exist no nice ans smooth way to leave the witnesses. If you disagree with their teachings, or commit another sin, you are dragged before an elders tribunal and risk to be kicked out on the spot. Now excommunication in itself can be ok, but the way it is practiced by the witnesses is not. Being disfellowshipped means: all witnesses will refuse to talk to you, not even say hello, even if they are CLOSE FAMILY MEMBERS. the same is true if you would decide for yourself to leave, upon receiving your letter of DISASSOCIATION you are treated the same as being disfellowshipped. I think your pentecoastal pals are nicer to you. If you think now: I don't have to announce officially that I leave, I just quit. Elders will keep on hunting you, giving you calls, stopping by unannounced, ask your whereabouts of family and friends, etc.

    Their policies make it happen that people dy because of their no blood policy, and this happens sadly quite frequently, it just does not hit the news any more. And child molesters are provided a safe haven. To verify this, please check www.silentlambs.org. in 2002, the headquarters had mre then 20.000 cases of child abuse on file, but upon this day NO action has been undertaken to warn the congregation of their existence.

    You absolutely want to go for that? Have fun

  • OBVES
    OBVES

    Out of 100 children born almost all later on - after they grow up - waste their lives by not believing in God properly.They will die sooner or later forever . While any child that died earlier still may have a chance to rise in the Paradise and believe in God after growing up and live forever.

    If I were to be a rebel against God now I would be better off immeasurably if I died as a child as God would resurrect me in the Paradise and give a chance to live forever.

    Harold Camping made a nice point once.Those people who were true believers in Haiti and died in a earthquake there ( in 2010 ) were blessed by God as they went to heaven in their souls ( to live a happy life there ) leaving their misery they had in their country .Haiti is one of the poorest countries in the world.

    Those who don't believe in a better life after death think this life is all we have as the most precious . If you know fully well that once you die as a child of God the next moment you are alive is a happy life much better than this present life.

    If you want best for your child and face the following :

    should I give transfusion which you understand is forbidden by God or let your child die

    you may think about the latter choice as the best as your child will be resurrected in the Paradise and have a chance to live on .

    If you allow the transfusion that will keep your child living you know by the statistics that most likely you will lose your child as almost all children that grow up are not becoming true believers in God in their lifetime;so they will die forever .

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    sabastious - "Well you have the art of placebo down pretty well then. You should fit right in with the Witnesses."

    Not neccesarily. None of the JWs I knew growing up were into the glossolalia thang.

    Bottom line; it's a fundamentally authoritarian heirarchy; thusly, it does not value democracy, transparency, or individual reasoning, and will have all the flaws inherent to such an organization.

    If anonymous4 doesn't believe me, he can contact a local JW elder and ask him if he can be a member in good standing and still to advocate a viewpoint that differs from WTS doctrine.

    If that's what he's looking for, then, well, that's it.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Not neccesarily. None of the JW's I knew growing up were into the glossolalia thang.

    They abhor it actually. My point was he is obviously well versed in applying placebo to his life. Suggestibility is the main personal characteristic that the Watchtower is looking for it potential members.

    -Sab

  • Stealth
    Stealth

    @OBVES

    By your logic, It would be loving to get a gun and blow out the brains of little children so they will have a chance to live forever? This way they won't have the chance to grow up godless and then die forever? Could I save the young children in my family by doing this? It would really be loving in the long run, wouldn't it?

  • anonymous4
    anonymous4

    sabastious, what are you going on about?

    In reading what you guys have said, it sounds similar to what would happen if I left the church I am in now. Same thing happens, I guess we are not that different after all. I basically get stalked if I miss one meeting out of the several each week. They don't believe me if I say I was busy or that I wasn't feeling well. Then they say I have a weak faith.

    jws don't like people who claim to "speak in tongues". I was told it was not from God, but from some kind of demonic force.

    well, look- if they are not the truth, where is one meant to go to find the truth. Isn't there even just ONE group out there that teach the truth straight from the bible, and are in union?

    Did any of you people after leaving WT join another church? If so, what?

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    The Watchtower is a "bad" religion because it is a high control religion. All religions focus on the same key fundamentals - a creator and an afterlife and leading a moral life. But when they start to become dictatorial they become damaging.

    I recommend reading http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/fear-cult-mind-control.php and http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/wrong-with-being-jehovahs-witness.php for a summary to your question.

    I do not feel it is logical to think there is a true religion. People belong to a religion based on where they are born. There is no religion that is available to all people on earth, and it is shocking to think God is only accessible to people who had the opportunity to know him, based on being in contact with a certain religious group.

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