Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 310 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Judge Dread
    Judge Dread


    Just become a JW and see for yourself what it is all about.

    I left the Catholic Church and got involved in spiritism.

    I joined the JW's and honestly, they saved me from a particular life course that I have never metioned, nor will ever mention, to anyone.

    I know I have gotten on this site and whined about the WTS, but in reality, it's all about how WE react to situations we face, whether at church, the workplace, or wherever.


  • anonymous4

    Thanks everyone, helpful advice. :)

  • Ding

    Back in the 1980s, Randy Watters and a number of other JWs at Bethel (WT headquarters in New York) started studying Romans and Galatians without Watchtower publications to guide them.

    They weren't trying to be rebellious -- just felt they ought to study the Bible itself more.

    They quickly realized that the Bible message was very different from what the Watchtower said it was.

    They all left the organization.

    You can learn about Randy's story through his website,

    Before you conclude it's "God's organization" read these accounts.

    They can save you a LOT of heartache and regret years down the line.

  • jgnat

    Hi, anonymous4. I hope you do come and visit this thread a few more times so we can chat.

    I see one one hand you are looking for deeper truth, and on the other hand, wonder how bad the witnesses could be? There's a world of difference between greater truth, which reminds me of climbing a great mountain, crisp air and grand panoramas, and "not so bad" which reminds me of scorched oatmeal. You can eat it, but who would want to?

    If you are serious about finding greater truth beyond your pentecostal upbringing, might I suggest you learn some sharper reasoning techniques. This will help you sort out the wheat from the chaff. For instance, even though the true path is narrow that few will find (Matthew 7:13), it does not follow that those with the most exclusive followers must have the truth. Otherwise, the flat earth society and Heaven's Gate are right.

    You must have learned from your upbringing that scripture balances scripture and you should not take one verse to live by without considering the counterpoint. Regarding Luke 12:53 (leaving your mother and father) and Matthew 8:22 (leave the dead to bury their dead), we have stories of entire households coming to Christ (Acts 16:15, 1 Chronicles 1:16). Just because you have a desire to break away from your upbringing to find higher truth, does not necessarily prove that the Witnesses have it.

    I find the Jehovah's Witness study techniques, once you peel off the gloss, to be sadly lacking in depth. Reasoning switches from bible verse (usually only one, and not balanced by others) to "reasoning". If a Jehovah's Witness doctrine is not supported by bible truth, they will use words like, "it is reasonable", "clearly" or "evidently". When you see these words in the publication, ask yourself if the argument really has been made?

    A few doctrines of the Jehovah's Witnesses that are just not supporable, broadly, from the bible include:

    • The separation of "anointed" from the "other sheep", and denial of the heavenly reward for the great majority of believers.
    • The taking of a blood transfusion as being equivalent to the biblical requirement to avoid eating blood.
    • Similarly, the condemnation and abstaining from Mother's Day, Thanksgiving, and birthdays is just not supported by scripture.

    If you do choose to join a book study from a Jehovah's Witness, I urge you to continue to question and not just go along for the ride. Do not accept deferrals and delays to your questions. Do not accept that the "answers" will come in time. Keep your mind sharp, maintain your questioning spirit.

    If you like the Witness doctrines, might I suggest the Seventh Day Adventists, who obsessively search after bible truth without trying to deceptively recruit their neighbours.

  • jgnat

    Oh, and a word about unity. The Jehovah's witnesses flaunt that word a lot. But the truth of the congregation is that it is hopelessly divided. Just like in your own congregation, if someone seriously questions the beliefs, they are shunned and kicked out. That's not unity; that's exclusivity.

    Even for those who are within, people are divided based on their status. Are they multi-generation believers with grandparents in the ministry? Or are they a convert? Are they a "pioneer" or merely a "publisher"? Is the man "reaching out" for greater "privilege" beyond "Ministerial Servant"? Do the parents have a child in Bethel? Those with partners who are not witnesses (called unbelievers) are treated like pariahs. They have trouble finding partners in field service and aren't invited to many social gatherings. Questioning children are treated very much like you are now - with mistrust and not a little dread that they may leave. If a child leaves, the parents can't talk to them.

    I find within a short time a Jehovah's Witness will let on about their status. Because it is important. To them.

    This is not unity of believers.

    The closest thing I've found to genuine community while embracing the individual is L'Arche. I warn you, though. Their beliefs are not based on strict interpretation of the bible. Their practices might blow your mind a little.

  • tec
    well, look- if they are not the truth, where is one meant to go to find the truth. Isn't there even just ONE group out there that teach the truth straight from the bible, and are in union?

    Ding already answered this question, but I thought I would just voice my support.

    There is no 'where' to go. There is only some 'one' to go to. That someone is Christ. You're only nineteen. If you can understand this: that Christ is the Truth, (more so than any group, more so than even the bible) then you might save yourself much regret and heartache both now and later. Go to Christ. Ask the Father to send Christ to you. You can follow and love Him without following any particular group of people, and that love can guide you.


  • anonymous4

    After what y'all have said, i'm not so keen on doing a bible study. Anyway, there's no point, I already gone through all their study books with my nwt and kjv bible. What'd be the point doing it again?

    tec, I guess you are right, I just need to go to Jesus Christ. Thing is people sometimes need support from other believers, that is why I wanted to seek for a church or for some other folks who believed as I did. I guess there aren't any.

    jgnat you said seperation of anointed from the other sheep, and the denial of the heavnely reward for the great majority of believers was something unbiblical.

    Could you maybe explain why? and what about the verses they use to prove their points, are they all taken out of context or something? Wht about all the verses that say the meek wil inherit the earth etc..?

    btw, how do you copy and paste on this thing with the box at the top?

  • Curtains

    anonymous4 there are loads of ways of making connections with people. Have you considered further education if you haven't already completed your education? hobbies and clubs are another avenue. You may find people there with whom you are able to make a spiritual connection. If not then as you are a young person you can always come back to religion later in life.

  • Ding


    I just sent you a PM. I don't know if you know how to access them. If not, just double click on the envelope in the upper right hand corner of the screen. If you get an error message, do it again.

    The WTS doesn't take everything out of context, but much of it they do.

    The anointed 144,000 v. "great crowd" they do.

    Study your Bible carefully.

    Although it does mention 144,000 and a "great crowd," nowhere does it say that the 144,000 are a special group of anointed Christians who are going to heaven and that the great crowd will never go there. Look at Revelation 7 where the 144,000 are first mentioned. Read the context. Aren't the all ON EARTH in the last days (why else would the command be given not to harm trees, etc. until they are all sealed?) Yet the WTS says that almost all of them are already in heaven.

    Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3 that unless a person is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. Yet the WTS tells JWs that the great crowd will be a part of God's kingdom without ever having been born again. They consider that experience only to apply to the 144,000.

    These are just a couple of examples to help you see how the WTS takes unrelated verses and puts them together to come up with their doctrines.

    Please look for the PM I sent you.

  • jgnat

    Ding already covered some of the problems with separating believers in to two "classes". Another exercise is to review the heavenly promises from Jesus and ask yourself if he intended them for his small audience of disciples or for you, as a modern day believer as well? Consider also Paul's admonitions and promises and check to see if he separated their application to different classes of believers.

    The only place where you will see a special separation of blessings based on class is in the Watchtower materials. It is astounding, really, how many blessings are excluded by the JW doctrine.

    I am a little surprised, considering your upbringing, that you haven't learned some basic study techniques when examining scripture. Doctrine can not hang on a single scripture alone. It must be considered in context of the surrounding text to garner the author's meaning, and the interpretation must hold up when considering the bible texts as a whole. I don't want to do your thinking for you. You won't see the fallacies unless you search them out for yourself, using the magnificent mind God blessed you with.

    An old story our pastor told was of a confused believer who randomly opened his bible for direction. The first verse he opened instructed Abraham to sacrifice his son. The second, to "go and do so likewise." A disaster, if taken literally!

    The verse about the "other sheep", in context, is talking about the Greek believers, who were direct converts to Christianity without detouring through Judaism first. Remember that the very first Christians were Jews first. The early divisions that the early church had to overcome was that a believer could come from any background, and they were not bound by the old laws.

    My (JW) husband is very fond of the scripture promising him the earthly reward. He works very hard on a developing a meek demeanor. And his presentations. And his selection of suit-jacket and tie. There is a certain smugness that he has earned a reward that most reject outright when he goes door-to-door. That's the problem when one sets out to acquire meekness for the reward. It sprouts wings and flies off like an eagle.

    This is another example of the Witnesses hanging an entire doctrine on a single verse. You won't find more supporting. Besides, in context, this is one of many blessings Jesus lists in the beatitudes. You don't see a concentration of effort by the Witnesses on the other blessings listed there, such as Matthew 5:12.

    As an aside, when the Nicene Council chose which texts would be sacred and which would be excluded, they looked at books that quoted each other and supported each other. Just like Matthew, Mark, Luke and John which provide generally similar accounts of the same events. They are internally consistent. Here are some texts that were excluded. Use the same discernment yourself when reading and interpreting scripture.

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