by bohm 86 Replies latest jw friends
Christimas is a current Pagan celebration now! And we as Christians do not do them. We can all have family occasions without needing the Christmas tag.
Also from my experience that picture is quite accurate of office Christmas parties where a cheap, fake, odd-shaped miniture tree is usually a requirement.
You must work in a cr4p office debator. I really hope you have a better xmas this year. Let me know when you're next looking for work - most of the companies I've worked for had xmas parties that were nothing less than spectacular.
The WTS photography is of a style that suits what they write.
MMXIV
Maybe a simple definition would help?!
Christmas |'kr?sm?s| noun ( pl. -mases )
the annual Christian festival celebrating Christ's birth, held on December 25.
• the period immediately before and after December 25 : we had guests over Christmas.
exclamation informal expressing surprise , dismay, or despair.
DERIVATIVES Christmassy adjective
ORIGIN Old English Cristes mæsse (see Christ , Mass ).
Clearly, the WT do not like celebrating the birth of Christ, the Saviour.
21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."
Blessings,
Stephen
Reniaa said:
Christimas is a current Pagan celebration now! And we as Christians do not do them. We can all have family occasions without needing the Christmas tag.
My reply: Says who Reniaa? You pagan GB god?
Reniaa said:
Also from my experience that picture is quite accurate of office Christmas parties where a cheap, fake, odd-shaped miniture tree is usually a requirement.
My reply: And?
Hi chalam
Are you saying Jesus was born on December the 25th?
Secondly the Bible records two birthday celebrations one by an egyptian pharoah the other by Herod under the influence of roman customs. Birthday celebrating by the nations was clearly well known to both Jews and Christians so what did they think of celebrating birthdays???
Although many who profess Christ celebrate birthdays, did you know that birthdays were simply not celebrated by those in the early church? Interestingly, there is no hint in the Bible or early writings that Jesus, the apostles, or any true Christians ever celebrated birthdays.
No early religious/church writing from the second century that I have seen (and I have read most that are available) seems to endorse (or even suggest) the celebration of birthdays by any who professed Christ.
Early christians simply didn't celebrate birthdays or Christmas (Jesus's birthday) It is a tradition drawn from the Romans.
Although he was not part of the Church of God, the writings of the early third century Catholic theologian Origen of Alexandria show that, even that late, Orthodox Catholics were against the celebration of birthdays. The Catholic Encyclopedia states:
It is interesting to note that while the New Testament is clear about the specific time of certain holy days such as Passover (Matthew 26:17-20) and Pentecost (Acts 2:1), it never mentions the date, nor even the precise month, of Jesus' birth (see Matthew 1 and Luke 1;2:1-20). Nor does it ever specifically endorse the celebration of birthdays. Not does it ever give the date (with either a solar or lunar calendar reference) for any one being born.
http://www.cogwriter.com/birthdays.htm
The first century Jewish historian Josephus noted that Jewish families did not celebrate birthdays:
Nay, indeed, the law does not permit us to make festivals at the birth of our children, and thereby afford occasion of drinking to excess (Josephus. Translated by W. Whiston. Against Apion, Book II, Chapter 26. Extracted from Josephus Complete Works, Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids (MI), 14th printing, 1977, p. 632).
Reniaa said:
Hi chalam
Are you saying Jesus was born on December the 25th?
My reply: Unknown and irrelevant. A day was set aside to honor Jesus birth.
Reniaa said:
Secondly the Bible records two birthday celebrations one by an egyptian pharoah the other by Herod under the influence of roman customs. Birthday celebrating by the nations was clearly well known to both Jews and Christians so what did they think of celebrating birthdays???
My reply: What they thought of birthdays is unrecorded. Simply not part of a culture does not make wrong in the eyes of God.
Reniaa says:
Although many who profess Christ celebrate birthdays, did you know that birthdays were simply not celebrated by those in the early church? Interestingly, there is no hint in the Bible or early writings that Jesus, the apostles, or any true Christians ever celebrated birthdays.
My reply: Blah blah blah....Whether they were or weren't is irrelevant. Absence does not make wrong. Another case of man claiming to know God's thinking when God did not express his view.
Reniaa said:
No early religious/church writing from the second century that I have seen (and I have read most that are available) seems to endorse (or even suggest) the celebration of birthdays by any who professed Christ.
Early christians simply didn't celebrate birthdays or Christmas (Jesus's birthday) It is a tradition drawn from the Romans.
Although he was not part of the Church of God, the writings of the early third century Catholic theologian Origen of Alexandria show that, even that late, Orthodox Catholics were against the celebration of birthdays. The Catholic Encyclopedia states:
It is interesting to note that while the New Testament is clear about the specific time of certain holy days such as Passover (Matthew 26:17-20) and Pentecost (Acts 2:1), it never mentions the date, nor even the precise month, of Jesus' birth (see Matthew 1 and Luke 1;2:1-20). Nor does it ever specifically endorse the celebration of birthdays. Not does it ever give the date (with either a solar or lunar calendar reference) for any one being born.
http://www.cogwriter.com/birthdays.htm
The first century Jewish historian Josephus noted that Jewish families did not celebrate birthdays:
Nay, indeed, the law does not permit us to make festivals at the birth of our children, and thereby afford occasion of drinking to excess (Josephus. Translated by W. Whiston. Against Apion, Book II, Chapter 26. Extracted from Josephus Complete Works, Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids (MI), 14th printing, 1977, p. 632).
My reply: more empty rants showing that birthday celebrations were not a part of the Jewish culture and nothing else. Failed to prove your point again Reniaa.
And what is wrong with partying, drinking and feasting??? Didn't the Isrealites do this after winning a battle? Didn't Jesus and the Apostles attend a wedding feast with drinking? (wine). The WT demonizes things that in themselves are completely normal ways of letting off steam. Peace, Lilly
lily, the WT does not mind its members having fun- so long as it is with other members. So, they demonize normal activities that would involve members associating with non-members.
Take b-days vs anniversaries. Anniversaries can easily be banned by the org under the same logic as b-days. One is allowed and the other not. Why?
B-days are done by kids at school and employees at the workplace. By banning members from doing this, the org makes the members stand out as different and not fit in with outsiders, cutting off or majorly hampering their outside association. Wedding anniversaries usually just involve the couple, or couple and close friends- who would presumably be other JWs.
Celebrating wedding anniversaries also wasn't part of Jewish culture - is this banned too? Since when did the Christian have to model himself on Jewish culture?
For people who are allowed to make decisions for themselves here is what I get from the Bible ...
Are birthdays bad? - no
Is it bad to kill somebody on your birthday? - yes
Is Christmas bad? - no
Is it bad to have an affair with someone at an office party on Christmas? yes
(Acts 15:28-29).For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication.
Jesus attended a wedding feast, at this wedding feast he turned water into wine, the master of the feast was praised for the quality of the wine that was being served because apparently at this time, when everyone would be buzzed enough to not notice or care about the quality, it was of premium quality. What does this tell us about the wedding feast Jesus was at and provided alcohol for?
The same reasons for pointing to birthday celebrations as pagan are found in wedding anniversaries, cake, candles, gifts, honoring people ...
The Watchtower wants to control lives. Unity by conformity.
