Do you recall, Gregor, when we were on opposite sides of this debate? I, the Christian, searching for my place in that vast ideology. You, the already convinced atheists?
At the time - what two or three years back - I would have never believed that I would agree with you on this subject. I do. It is a fascinating journey to behold when one looks back and realized how quickly things can change once the shackles of religious blindness are gone.
Tammy - yes, this is the statement I made:
So while some of the virtues mentioned by Jesus are commendable, I believe mine to be equal or superior
And I stand by it. I find no particularly impressive teaching in what Jesus taught - at least from the standpoint of being vastly, overwhelmingly, amazingly, superior to the values espoused by almost every good and respectable person I know, including myself. In fact, I find some of Jesus' so called 'moral' principles to be plain wrong, depending on the situation. Take the 'turn the other cheek' idea. There are times in which that is just plain bad teaching. If someone threatens someone, or his family, then self-defense in order. Jesus made no allowance for that. Some Christian organizations have been known to 'mollify' this command in the teachings of the religion - but the pure believer in Jesus, if faithful, would have to do just as they are told - turn the other cheek, allow bullies, or criminals, or violent persons to just run over them. Jesus' teaching here seems to me to be pacifism. Gandhi agreed with this value - I don't.
Those of us who understand that we are just the highest of animals on the planet, know this principle will not work. We are relatively civil and peaceful animals, but underlying that, we are predators - our eyes face forward. We just don't all that often attack our own. Still -Pacifist nations would be obliterated. Pacifist individuals too, if the right challenger came along.
It is in these areas that I believe my virtues differ from Jesus' and in fact are superior to Jesus' teachings. Animals, even those at the apex of the food chain, encounter predators - predators will kill, or maim you and those you love if you 'turn the other cheek'. Before you go citing some anecdotal experience that proves this wrong in one case or another - understand that I am not talking about the occasional variance - I am talking about the general rule. The strong survive - they eat the weak.
And before you go accusing me of becoming the bully in that manner - understand that I am generally quite peaceful - I don't come across as aggressive physically - I don't seek the fight. In fact, I have rarely ever has to use my own advise. Yet, if it came to that - I would. Without mercy.
Jesus' was wrong. It's a nice sales pitch - but it doesn't work in real life.
I would expect the 'Christian' response to be either, "That's not what he meant." Where have we heard that before? Or, 'but what if everyone followed that rule of love?' Fact is - That is allegedly what He said - who can know what shades of meaning he might have had [well for that matter, if he actually even said it.] And since the whole world isn't going to 'go Jesus' anytime soon it won't work. It is just fact - though we have evolved to a place advanced to other animals, we retain the genes of cave-dwellers - and sometimes that means we have to defend ourselves - even defend ourselves with lethal force, especially against those of our own species.
I know that to the Christian those statements represent blasphemy. Well, if that is your opinion, so be it. How can I concern myself with the concept to be honest? No god means no blasphemy.
I hope that all made sense to you. That is just one virtue that came to mind in which Jesus was full of shyte IMHO.
Jeff