The False Prophet Nathan?

by brotherdan 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Olin Moyles Ghost
    Olin Moyles Ghost

    Guys, remember that the WTS is free to redefine words as it sees fit. It did so with "generation" and appears to have done so with "prophecy." In Watchtower-land, it's perfectly acceptable to do all of the following, and you're still not a false prophet:

    1. Assert that a small group of clergy (the GB)-- to the exclusion of everybody else--has been appointed by Jesus to provide food and that this group of clergy is the only group of the world that is "spirit-directed."
    2. Assert that, being directed by God's spirit, the Bible tells us that God will kill every man, woman, and child who does not follow this small group of clergy within "one generation" of 1914.
    3. Then, when it becomes clear that the "1914 generation" is dying off, make up a completely new meaning for the term "generation" in order to string your followers along for a few more years.

    So, it's perfectly ok to claim that God is using you--and only you--to get his message out (isn't that what prophets did back in the day?), and when you're wrong there's no accountability. Pretty good little gig if you ask me! All the benefits, and none of the accountability. Never underestimate the audacity of clergymen! (or the gullibility of their followers)

  • bennyk

    debator, perhaps you need to reconsider what the Watch Tower Society says regarding a "prophet" in the 08. June 1986 Awake! (p.9): "The New American Bible correctly states: ' Prophet means "one who speaks for another," especially for God. It does not necessarily mean that he predicts the future!"' It is very clear that the WTS has in the past and does still claim (albeit falsely) to speak for Almighty God.

    Furthermore, the Society gives the following explanation of how one becomes guilty of "false prophesying": "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world,' even announcing a specific date. Some have gathered group of people with them and fled to the hills or withdrawn into their houses waiting for the end. Yet, nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying." (Awake! 08. October 1968, p. 23)

    Do you understand how the Society's false predictions regarding 1881, 1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, and 1975 prove them guilty of falsely prophesying?

  • brotherdan

    This is usually the part where debator goes MIA.

  • bennyk

    debator, djeggnog, et al. Please do give a few minutes consideration to the following quotes:

    13 The fact that decides the answer to the question is, not, Do all the clergy of Roman Catholicism and of Protestantism agree that Jehovah’s witnesses have been and are God’s prophet to the nations? but, Who discerned the divine will for Christians in this time of the world’s end and offered themselves to do it? Who have undertaken God’s foreordained work for this day of judgment of the nations? Who have answered the call to the work and have done it down till this year 1958? Whom has God actually used as his prophet?14 By the historical facts of the case Christendom is beaten back in defeat. Jehovah’s witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. All the preaching and all the Bible educational work that they have done till now in 175 countries and islands of the sea they confess has been, not by help of a military army, nor by human power, but by God’s spirit, his invisible active force. (Zech. 4:6, AV) It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths. It has evidently been because he commissioned them to be over the nations and over the kingdoms. Happy are all those who have seen what the work of Jehovah God for now is and who have volunteered to do it. (w59 1/15 pp. 40-41 pars. 13-14)

    22 As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first-century Christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an intensified and unparalleled scale. All this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it. The abundance of spiritual food and the amazing details of Jehovah’s purposes that have been revealed to Jehovah’s anointed witnesses are clear evidence that they are the ones mentioned by Jesus when he foretold a “faithful and discreet slave” class that would be used to dispense God’s progressive revelations in these last days. Of this class Jesus said: “Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.”-Matt. 24:47. (w64 6/15 p. 365 par. 22)

    36 None of us should want to be like these indecisive, unresponding ones! Better it is to know now, rather than too late, that there is an authentic prophetic class of Christians among us, and to accept and act upon the Bible message, “not as the word of men, but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13) Concerning the message faithfully delivered by the Ezekiel classJehovah positively states that it “must come true.” He asseverates that those who wait undecided until it does “come true” “will also have to know that a prophet himself had proved to be in the midst of them.” (Ezekiel 33:33) Such belated knowledge, however, will not mean salvation for them, for it will find their hearts and their ways to be unchanged.
    37 What is to be gained by hesitating and doubting to the end that Jehovah can raise up and has raised up a genuine “prophet” within our generation? (“The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah”-How? chap. 15 p. 292 pars. 36-37)

    However, Jehovah did not let the people of Christendom, as led by the clergy, go without being warned that the League was a counterfeit substitute for the real kingdom of God. He had a “prophet” to warn them. This “prophet” was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. They are still proclaiming a warning, and have been joined and assisted in their commissioned work by hundreds of thousands of persons who have listened to their message with belief.
    Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a “prophet” of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show? (w72 4/1 p. 197 ‘They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them’)

    22 The holy spirit, which Jehovah prophesied that he would pour out in the last days, has not ceased to operate, for the remnant are still baptizing disciples of Christ in the name of that spirit. (Matthew 28:19, 20; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21) The announced purpose behind God’s pouring out of his spirit upon all sorts of flesh was that the recipients thereof might prophesy. The facts substantiate that the remnant of Christ’s anointed disciples have been doing that prophesying to all the nations for a witness in favor of God’s kingdom. Logically, then, they must be the ones upon whom God’s spirit has actually been poured out. That spirit is behind their worldwide preaching.Why argue about it? (Holy Spirit-The Force Behind the Coming New Order! chap. 8 p. 148 par. 22)

    You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah’s Witnesses. Out of love for God and his Word, they are carrying on a universal Bible educational work among old and young, rich and poor. They have hundreds of thousands of full-time voluntary workers, some of whom translate and print Bibles and Bible educational literature that is distributed inexpensively, or even free of charge. They are assisted by millions of part-time workers. Any of these will be happy to help you “discern the signs of the times” and embrace the wonderful hope contained in God’s Word, the Bible. (g86 6/8 p. 9 “Would That All Were Prophets!”)

  • superpunk


    How do you personally mesh those attempts (regardless of what you want to call them) with Jesus' explicit declaration that "Noone knows the day and the hour"?

    Isn't reading that, and then STILL trying to ascertain the day and the hour, kind of like a big "Eff You" to Jesus?

    I guess debator doesn't want to talk about this?

  • wasblind

    BAM, hey Debator, where you at !!!!!

  • debator

    Hi wasblind I apologise for my delay.

    While it is enjoyable to see you all redefine "prophet" to avoid dealing with the clear defined point in deut 18 on what makes false prophecy which is purely discussiing making predictions spoken to a person by God himself directly. Rather than warning from already written inspired predictions/prophecies. Which Jehovah gave to the Bible writers and in this witnesses are doing God's work but not getting inspired words directly from his mouth only repeating as per instruction the warnings God already gave to those bible writers that where inspired.

    Another side point is that they do not try and put a date on armageddon itself they are talking about Jesus's presence and the end of gentile times this is not the same thing.

    Where is all redefining getting you? Into an impossible position where you are saying only perfect people can be God's people.

    According to your reasonings Nathan and the apostles by simply making mistakes on God's or his son's words are also false prophets but you realise this is impossible but then ignore it to keep pointing to this unrealistic expectation on the witnesses to justify rejecting them as God's people.

  • wasblind

    Show me where at in Duet 18:21 -22

    where there is a stipulation thats makes it not a false prophecy if you make a

    prediction using "a warning from already written inspired predictions/prophecies."

    I'll tell you what, show me any scripture from the Bible that supports that

  • superpunk

    Another side point is that they do not try and put a date on armageddon itself they are talking about Jesus's presence and the end of gentile times this is not the same thing.


    Matthew 24:23

    23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.

    Also, why would they bother trying to predict this when Jesus himself said;

    Matthew 24:36

    36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, [ f ] but only the Father.

  • wasblind

    Debator says: "witnesses are doing God's work but not getting inspired words directly from his mouth"

    Duet 18:18 says: "and i shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that i shall command him."

    Debator, JW's claim they get their predictions from warnings already written, so that means they are not false prophets. claiming it's not directly from his mouth because they were already written before hand.

    Debator, who's inspired words are being discussed in Duet 18:18 ? who did these words originate with ? GOD

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