The False Prophet Nathan?

by brotherdan 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  bennyk

  debator, you write in post 268: "

  18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

  21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of Jehovah does not take place or come true, that is a message Jehovah has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

  The context for all these scriptures is when God speaks words to the prophets directly. This is the creteria for inspiration in the bible so they knew which books were inspired or what was prophetic utterances. Hense why the Bible is called "God's word".

  My response: Please re-read the quote from the 1959 Watchtower:

  13 The fact that decides the answer to the question is, not, Do all the clergy of Roman Catholicism and of Protestantism agree that Jehovah’s witnesses have been and are God’s prophet to the nations? but, Who discerned the divine will for Christians in this time of the world’s end and offered themselves to do it? Who have undertaken God’s foreordained work for this day of judgment of the nations? Who have answered the call to the work and have done it down till this year 1958? Whom has God actually used as his prophet?14 By the historical facts of the case Christendom is beaten back in defeat. Jehovah’s witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. All the preaching and all the Bible educational work that they have done till now in 175 countries and islands of the sea they confess has been, not by help of a military army, nor by human power, but by God’s spirit, his invisible active force. (Zech. 4:6, AV) It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths.It has evidently been because he commissioned them to be over the nations and over the kingdoms. Happy are all those who have seen what the work of Jehovah God for now is and who have volunteered to do it. (w59 1/15 pp. 40-41 pars. 13-14)
• 

  coffee_black

  

  debator,

  You can argue semantics all you want. The fact is that the watchtower has called itself the modern day prophet....and not a single thing they have prophecied has ever come to pass. This article was in the leadup to 1975... I experienced that false prophecy first hand. By defintion, that makes them a false prophet.

  Coffee
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  debator

  HI coffee black and bennyk

  We are just running around in circles. I hold to the bible and a unque ability to be inspired (thus how the bible was written and identified as God's word )and You want to blur this to being a prophet and making them accountable from every word as if they where inspired despite what deut 18 says. Jehovah's witnesses have never claimed inspiration and thats my point from the start you can blur this all you want, you can even try and read a claim for it into wt's but you cannot get them to openly declare it when all we have ever done is deny this ability because we know it ended with the apostles.

  If all you can do is resort to cut-n-pastes from wt's and no longer using the bible, I rest my case and leave it to the readers to decide for themselves. The case for what is inpired and what isn't.

  I reiterate we have the Bible example of a PROPHET Nathan making a mistaken prediction in his own words and not getting condemned for it only corrected by God this shows that God knows the difference.
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  donny

  Debator said:When I compare witnesses with other Christian religions I see a fragmentmented Christendom with a few truths amidst a load of man-made doctrines. Then I see witnesses with massive simple and clear bible truths, a hard-working people simply trying to do Jehovah's will.

  You see fragmented groups because of the way the Society presents other groups. They will say they are united versus "Christendom" which is all fragmented. Of course it is fragemented when you lump all other groups into one.

  Mormons do the same thing. They lump the JW's with all other non-Mormon groups and state how they are united worldwide while everyone else is fragmented. Seventh Day Adventists also use the "we are united" moniker. So do Catholics, some Church of Christ groups and many others.

  Debator also said "Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths"

  Since JW doctrine is constantly changing, just what words has jehovah place din their mouths. If what they are teaching now is changed next year, then who put the current teaching in their mouth?

  Donny
• 

  coffee_black

  debator,

  You are the one running around in circles. The wt said (see bennyk"s post) that Jehovah put the words in their mouth. Using Deuteronomy as the standard, that fact, all by itself, proves that they are indeed a false prophet, and if one wants to please God, one should not follow them. There is nothing better than the actual page of wts teachings to prove what they have said.... If I want to show what the wt says, I can do that as I have above, by going to the source.... a printed wt article.

  When I want to read about God, I go directly to the scriptures. I don't need an organization or magazines to do that.

  I can't go to the scriptures to see what the wt says... I have to go to the wt publications to do that.

  Hard to deny your organizations own publications... isn't it?

  I think most here will easily see that the wt is, indeed, a false prophet. And yes, if they claim to be the only organization on earth that represents Jehovah, then they ARE to be held accountable for what they teach.... every word.

  Coffee
• 

  debator

  Hi donny

  MY understanding of Christendom is from personal observation. I "tested the spirit" of as many as I came across. Some things are easy like an unbiblical triune God worshiped instead of Jehovah our father, God kept namelss deliberately using only titles like God, lord, allah(which simply means God) etc. Or like Mormons that added a claim of personal inspiration after the apostles for their book of mormon. Or going against Bible absolutes like immorality, idolatry, killing etc Witnesses are far beyond them in bible truths and harmony. But that is for each person to decide for themselves.

  If we speak from the bible we have God's words on our lips.

  1 Peter 4:11
  If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God.

  Confidence in our being Jehovah's people speaking from his word the Bible is not the issue here but the claim for direct inspiration from Jehovah every single witness knows we teach this ended with the apostles and do not claim it for ourselves.

  Hi coffee black

  There is a reason why we are a flock with shepherds we are not meant to be individuals breaking out our own versions of God from our own inclinations. Being together, searching, gathering, praying together blesses us with greater truths.

  Matthew 18:20
  For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

  I do not see witnesses as false prophets because they simply do not fit the Bible creteria for being false prophets by claiming direct inspiration from God or claiming to do great signs or miracles or claim to be christ unlike others. So I think your need to condemn witnesses I feel is showing your cognitive dissonance on this topic
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  So it's reasonable to conclude that what is read in the Watchtower and heard at the District Convention is not from Jehovah.
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  coffee_black

  Having God's words on our lips, is not the same as Jehovah putting the words in the mouths of the wt. Having God's words on one lips means one is speaking about God and His Word. God putting His words in their mouths is being inspired. One is claiming that the words are not coming man, but directly from God. The wt has called itself a prophet. Did you read the wt article I posted above? The title of the article is They shall know that a prophet was among them.

  The problem with being a jw is that one continually has to get creative in defending it.

  Coffee
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  debator

  Hi billy

  Do not put words in my mouth. I accept they are not inspired as the apostles and early prophets where (as witnesses admit themselves) but I also accept they show the fruitage of God's blessing and spirit guidance by the amount of biblical truths they have so hense why I am a witness. They have the authority that has been passed down by Jesus to us his flock on earth by doing his father's will we make ourselves his people and have shepherds among ourselves as per Bible requirements.

  Who is the one working for God those that sit on the side critiziing or those actually doing the work?

  Hi coffee black

  Not all prophets where inspired this has already been shown biblically as in the case of miriam. Also those that where inspired could make mistakes in their own words like nathan with predictions. So both is covered. You have to claim specific inspiration from God directly.
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  coffee_black

  You are assuming that others don't "do" anything. That is not the case. You seem to think that once someone leaves the organization, they abandoned Jehovah. Some do, having been disillusioned by the wt. Many, however have a stronger relationship with God than they ever had as a jw. That leads to ministry in many forms.

  James 1:27 (New International Version)

  27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

  If this is the definition of religion that is acceptable to Jehovah, why doesn't the wt do this? Do you do this? Do you provide for widows and orphans? Does the wt? I was in for nearly 4 decades, and never saw a jw do this.

  Coffee