The False Prophet Nathan?

by brotherdan 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  brotherdan

  Is it a lie when people are forced to this "opinion"? Is it a false prophecy when it is not mearly bible speculation, but it is also enforced? Uncover your eyes, debator. Stop making excuses for evil men. I dont' see how Matthew 24:11 applies to many others BUT the WT. Over and over and over they have said that God promises something, when in fact he didn't.

  Being ready and forcing others to believe in a prophetic speculation are 2 VERY different things.

  Please, Debator, define in 1 or 2 sentences what the term "False Prophet" means to you?
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  brotherdan

  And this was NOT Rutherfords only mistake. He was an alcoholic abusive man with a power trip. Do your research.
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  brotherdan

  People like Debator also like to bring up "This happened so long ago. Look how far back you have to go." Debator, explain to me why we don't use Christmas trees? Is it because of what they were used for HUNDREDS of years ago? They are not used that way today. Then why don't you use them? Isn't it different now? Apply that to your own leadership.

  Also, we do not have to go back very far to see the WT claim inspiration and prophetic powers. They still claim it today. Yes, they say "We are not inspired", but then they say "We are not speaking mens words. We are speaking Jehovah's Words."
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  debator

  HI brotherdan

  Bible writers, Jews and Christians understood the difference between claiming "inspiration" prophecy directly from Jehovah or just giving credit to God for everything in humbleness.

  2 Peter 1:21 (New International Version)

  21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

  Trying to undertstand this already written bible prophecy and chronology is not a sin it is a directive. The sin is to bury it unused in fear of Jehovah when it has been given to us specifically to use.

  You are hiding the fact from yourself that you are redefining bible words in your need to blacken witnesses.

  No one is ever going to persuade me that using bible chronology and prophecies are is wrongdoing even if we can and do make mistakes on them. We are commanded to use them come what may.
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  brotherdan

  So it's ok to enforce the belief in these false prophecies? Is it ok to enforces a speculation?

  Please don't say that the WT does not enforce this. I will show you the letters written to the elders that states that an apostate is one that has beliefs different from the Watchtower and they do not necessarily have to communicate these beliefs to others. Having the belief or non belief is enough.
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  brotherdan

  You also contradict yourself in your use of scripture. 1Peter says that prophecy comes from God. If the prophecy does not come from God it is a false prophecy. You like to avoid that word, don't you? It makes me think you don't understand what it means.
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  superpunk

  Also, we do not have to go back very far to see the WT claim inspiration and prophetic powers. They still claim it today. Yes, they say "We are not inspired", but then they say "We are not speaking mens words. We are speaking Jehovah's Words."

  Ever watched the Office?

  There's an episode where Michael (the manager) thinks he's going to get in trouble for an idea he had, so he claims it was someone else's idea. But the idea is a big success, so he's confronted at the end because he now wants credit. When his boss asks him what it is he wants, he says

  "I want all of the credit, but none of the blame."

  That's the Governing Body in a nutshell.
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  debator

  Hi Brotherdan

  You are misunderstanding my point.

  They simply haven't made prophecies for them to be considered false. Understandings from ALREADY written bible prophecy from the bible is simply not prophecy, All of the dates that witnesses use/d are simply understandings drawn from bible prophecies and chronology .."times, time and half" " this generation" etc. Unless you are saying that the bible writers themselves that wrote these words where false prophets?
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  superpunk

  debator:

  How do you personally mesh those attempts (regardless of what you want to call them) with Jesus' explicit declaration that "Noone knows the day and the hour"?

  Isn't reading that, and then STILL trying to ascertain the day and the hour, kind of like a big "Eff You" to Jesus?
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  brotherdan,

  Back to your OP, Nathan made a statement only to David. Very soon afterward Nathan received word from God that David was not to build the temple. Nathan quickly returned to inform the king of his hasty statement. No harm done.

  However, in Watchtower World, the GB has printed and circulated their errant prophecies in hundreds of languages throughout the world.
  Where Nathan had initially encouraged the king to build, he didn't give a pretext of that being God's final word on the matter that he printed for circulation throughout the entire world.
  Nathan didn't threaten to disfellowship David or anyone in the kingdom if they didn't fully believe that David was supposed to build the temple.
  Decades didn't elapse between the time that Nathan encouraged him to build the temple and when he returned to correct the matter.
  Nathan was corrected by God with final direction that didn't change, while the GB has been corrected by time (when the "1914 generation" died) and replaced it with a different direction, also not from God that again had to be changed because it was fatally flawed.
  Nathan didn't preface his correction with pathetic excuses about how it was David's fault for being too eager (as Franz blamed the JWs for the end not coming in 1975 because YOU were expecting it) or that it was good on Nathan's part to build "watchfulness" through false expectation (they've been wrong about the end since 1914, but that's good to keep the dubs "watchful").
  While David was disappointed at the correction that he would build the temple, it didn't cause any inconvenience for him. It was a simple yes/no. It didn't affect his retirement fund. Other than his family problems, David died in bed with a young hottie surrounded by fabulous wealth. The most obedient JWs who put Watchtower first will retire in poverty because they were led to believe that they would never grow old because the end was supposed to come before the end of the twentieth century.