Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • debator

    Hi Billy

    Do you except the limitations of 3 score years and ten with this new future of yours? and the limitation of men doing both good and bad around you that you cannot stop?

  • PSacramento

    Biggest harm:

    And Our Lord Jesus said:

    If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. (Matthew 12:7)

  • Scott77

    For 16 years, I was entraped within the Jehovah's Witnesses religion and was literary afraid to leave it due 'doomsday scanario' which AllTimeJeff points out. Iam glad now to be free, liberated and is gradually working to rebuild my life back to normalcy. Its been three years now. Lookning back, I feel sorry for myself, having wasted those wonderful sweet years of my prime time at a time when I was at the best of my youthful vigor, the height of power.

  • Paulapollos


    I think that really is the point, don't you? Sadly, an organisation which has so much potential instead misuses its power to teach things that are patently untrue, and spun. The selective use of evidence, and the narrow, "the world is so evil" scenario, makes Witnesses frightened of the "big bad wolf." Very sad.

    Debator -

    The Witnesses DON'T have a worldwide program teaching people sign-language. To state that as a fact is a mis-representation of the facts. I know my friend - because that is one area of official Society work I was involved in.

    What they do have is a program where they follow other charitable organisations into countries where ASL is being developed, often against the wishes of the indigenous deaf and at the expense of the local sign language. If there is not a fully established SL, they then offer to play the ASL "What does the Bible really teach" and other publications in ASL, or relevant foreign SL, and attempt to get them to learn these "signs", although much of the material in those publications violates basic sign language linguistics. The offer to play the ASL and for them to "learn" ASL is only available as long as they state they are interested in the material - because it is actually a Bible study, not a program to teach SL. In essence, these people have not seen SL on DVD - and it understandably astonishes them. Often, they simply watch in amazement as SL is done in front of them - and the Society gets a SL Bible Study on the sly. It is taking advantage of uneducated and illiterate people.

    That is the current state of affairs, I presume you are referring to. There is no program to teach illiterate and non-sign-using deaf an actual SL that they can use, independent of "interest in the Bible message." The Society would not, and rightly considering the stated aims of the organisation, waste resources in that way


  • debator


    There is no point in them teaching a sign language that is not an already established one. I should have made this clearer they can only build on what is already being used by the majority of the deaf community. But if you want proof of it working.

  • Paulapollos


    I'm afraid this is not correct. There are a number of reasons it is profitable to use ASL, and not an established "vernacular" SL - and the fact is that in many countries a vernacular SL does not exist in terms you and I would understand. I think you should do much deeper research in this area before making further comments.

    Also Debator, read the news pieces carefully - ASL is a fully-fledged language, and has operated for over 100 years. It is widely used by deaf people all over the US - and that is NOT because of JW's. Galladuet University is the only deaf liberal arts university in the world, and it is ASL-specific. It would not exist of JW's had to teach large numbers of deaf people in the US ASL. JW's do not teach American Deaf ASL. It is a fully fledged language in it's own right.

    However my point stands - there is no formal "let us teach deaf people SL, irrespective of their religious beliefs, because it is a good work", anywhere in the world. That is a mis-representation, even if inadvertant.

    I did not say I do not agree with that policy - simply that it does not exist as you represent it. You have to remember the stated aims of the organisation.


  • isaacaustin

    Debator, looks like you have put your foot in your mouth on a topic you do not know what you are speaking of. Thanks for the clarification and first-hand insight from you own personal experience Paulapollos.

  • Scarred for life
    Scarred for life

    The doomsday scenario that the JWs preach causes its members to put off anything that brings joy in life and creates growth and development within an individual. That is all supposed to happen after Armageddon. So your whole life is spent waiting for that to happen. And then the members that have children raise their children that way. There is nothing to look forward to except Armageddon. There are no accomplisments to celebrate and feel that satisfaction. The mind is not challenged or strengthened. Many friendships are not developed and strengthend . You cannot even allow your self to think privately about certain topics or to form questions in your mind that you want answered. You live your life in a mind prison. And , yes, it is very, very harmful on many levels.

  • Paulapollos

    Thanks Issacaustin

    I must say I do get somewhat annoyed when people make ill-informed claims. It's just very untrue to try to claim that JW's teach the "poor deaf people" to communicate, and so the JW's are performing a "charitable, humanitarian work."

    It's actually very simple.

    The Society view deaf people just like they view any other language group. In every single country, the deaf have various forms of "vernacular" language. Some of these are highly developed and widespread - British Sign Language, French Sign Language, New Zealand Sign Language, AUSLAN, and so forth. So the Witnesses learn the language of the deaf in that country as best they can, like they would any other, and produce publications in that language, then go preach. End of. Nothing charitable about teaching the "poor deaf sign language". The deaf of these countries would be offended and likely to provide you with a crash course of getting your head kicked in if you dared to suggest that these highly educated, deaf professionals needed your "charitable work".

    In other countries, like India and Sri Lanka, or the Phillipines, there are many disparate vernaculars. Since the languages had not developed to a degree the Society can utilise in thier mass-produced, Henry Ford driven way, they began trying to bring ASL into these countires, like other Christian organisations. This is the "teaching people SL" that Debator referred to. This disresepctful, patronising attitude led to a backlash. How dare the Society and all these other religious groups try to enforce a foreign language on deaf people, because it was easier for them. (Please understand there were other cultural and linguistic issues, but they are not relevant here.) So now, the Society and others are following SIL International, and learning the vernaculars and then producing publications in that language. They made a mistake and rectified it. End of.

    Now, what part of that is "teaching deaf people Sign Language"? With respect, Debator is discussing something I think he may not fully understand, on both a historical and cultural level, never mind a linguistic level. I both have an extensive background and an ongoing professional and academic interest in this field.

    You know, what's really sad is that Debator, I am sure inadvertantly, talks about this like the "poor deaf" need to be taught to communicate by the "hearing", and implicitly points to it being a "charitable work". Yes........that makes sense. Because it isn't like that group, like every other liguistic minority, has it's own communication methods, history, culture and so forth, and happen to be highly educated, is it? JW's are just learning sign language and preaching in it. That's it. Debator has fallen into the trap of lack of information, understanding of the field, and patronising a group he does not understand. I don't think he does that deliberately - but he shouldn't hijack the "deaf" to prove that "JW's do charitable work".

    To be clear -

    JW's do not teach deaf people to sign, in any formalised or worldwide scale.

    JW's learn the local vernancular language and preach in it - like any other language.

    To implicitly state learning Sign Language and preaching in it is a charitable work is patronising, and offensive. It is like saying that you are helping the poor Spanish people to communicate, by learning Spanish, because they need you to talk in their language. Ridiculous. What next, the white man must shoulder the "white man's burden" to civilise the world? Luddite.

    Charitable work, my foot. It's just preaching in another language. Don't be stupid.


  • LongHairGal

    Probably the biggest harm it caused me is that I want nothing to do with any other religion. I am sure if I were to join up with another Christian religion I would see similar things that would turn me off. So, no thanks!

    Everything the other posters said is also true. The religion feels unaccountable for the needless suffering and the unforgivable waste of time and human potential caused by people following it's teachings. They do not care one bit.

    The religion kills the spark of creativity or ambition in people and causes them to become 'docile" mentally (to a fault). We weren't meant to be so clueless or reactionless. We were given instincts of creativity, ambition, sense of danger and self-preservation, among other things, by our creator for a REASON. We need them.

    Now, I am always wary of any stranger or organization who wants me to totally 'relax' or let down my guard.

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