Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Scott77

    "JW's are an entirely different animal from Manson's followers. They bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm JW's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities. A rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said AllTimeJeff, a former Jehovah's Witnesses Missionary in West Africa.

    In view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that? Might this perpetuate the harm already inflicted on the suffering Jehovah's Witness members or will it help them regain he lost freedom and enjoy?

  • wobble

    I think if anyone stays after this latest hogwash, they are bound to be more in the clutches of the GB and their minions.

    The way the WT have it now , they have an open end to the time they can keep saying "It is sooooo close" and " you must put Kingdom Interests (read WT corporation profits) first".

    Those who stay, and it will be the vast majority who are in at present, will be ever more inclined to put their lives on hold, less inclined to provide for their and their children's future, and will run around inside the wheel of "Theocratic Activities" like brainless mice.

  • debator

    Hi scott

    If you are happy with what this world and existence offers within it's three score years and ten then jeff certainly has a point.

    1 John 2:16-17 (New International Version)

    16 For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

    Faith reaching out beyond what we see and can do is a mark of our faith in Jehovah.

    Hebrews 11:1 (New International Version)

    1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

    It is two different choices that are laid before us. And it is understandable that if you choose the realness of the now in this world that you would consider this the preferred choice.

    Isaiah 22:13
    But see, there is joy and revelry, slaughtering of cattle and killing of sheep, eating of meat and drinking of wine! "Let us eat and drink," you say, "for tomorrow we die!"

  • bohm

    Debator, so were it not for God would you be unhappy about the world and your existence?

  • debator

    Hi bohm

    Good question! Yes I would be unhappy. It is too limiting and harmful, I find myself too aware of those in need in poverty of poorer nations that have to suffer so I in a richer nation can have more. The selfishness of people for themselves or just for their family is very off-putting. Then you see the mad dash for inheritances from dead relatives as greed overwhelms their offspring.

    Would you be prepared to ask this of a child dying of aids in africa? or a native american still living on reserves after their own land was ripped away from them? Or a person living on handouts because they are to ill/old/disabled/lacking education to get out of their poverty trap?

    I saw a program last night about cosmetic surgeons that went to vietnam to help for 7 days the multiple people left with facial disfigurments after many years of harmful chemicals released around them from the war (they have one of the highest rates for disfigurments for any country). There was a massive line of people (mostly kids with face tumours) but they could only help a few. It was unutterably sad and moving.

    What this world does provide, is many avenues of escapism entertainment that stop us seeing our lack.

  • bohm

    debator: well, i think your a middleclass guy with to much time on his hand like me and not dying of AIDS or malaria so obiously those are different things.

    So you would be unhappy about your own existence if God did not exist because other people are suffering?

  • Paulapollos

    I think ATJeff's point is very valid. The reality is that the organisation discourages the attempt that many people make to improve their own lives, through education, by stating implicitly that only theocratic activities have any "real worth". This stunts the personal, intellectual and professional development of many JW's.

    Allied to this, the idea is prevalent that the state the world is in shows that efforts to assist others thru humanitarian drives, education drives, the promotion of business and governance, are ultimately useless. While acknowledging the results, often the illustration used is akin to "but why polish the brass on a sinking ship?" It often seems that JW's try to ease their own conscience by stating that proclaiming the Kingdom to others is the ultimate good. But to use Debator's point - the starving child in Africa cannot eat a tract, or drink a WT. He needs clean water and food right now, right here, as well as an education and the social conditions that will lead to him not starving to death in the first place. And promises of "jam tomorrow" however well-intentioned and true, do not alleviate the responsiblity that we all have in that regard. JW's could do so much, following the example of others. But the reality is that the organisation, not individual JW's, really don't want to get involved, because it leads of all kinds of uncomfortable scenarios, and questions.

    ATJeff makes a good point. Stunting the development of individuals, and promoting a generally fatalistic and untruthful view of society and the state of the world is actually very harmful to JW's. In a way, the organisation shoots themselves in the foot - when people invariably leave, they are bitter and resentful of the limitations imposed on them by a millerite worldview.I really believe that this generation change is going to exacarbate an already dangerous situation.

    I myself have returned to university, and have seen firsthand that the stunting of intellectual development was, in my own case, harmful.


  • debator

    Hi bohm

    I have a social conscience that is true but life has made it clear that man is unable to address all our problems, despite all our knowledge and current advances. America will not even put in national health system despite knowing it will greatly benefit the poor (It is now said the poor/needy in America are in the thirdworld poverty status). If you can close your eyes to the suffering of others and live in a selfish bubble then sure it is a fine thing.

    But sometimes even for middleclass fairly well-off people as ourselves. We do get touched by the reality of this world, as the recent depression did wake up a few. Or when some mad gunman just runs out and kills people in their thought to be untoucheable world. Or if they have a child or grandchild born with an uncurable disability. Or the inevitable consequences of aging when even the plastic surgeons knife cannot hide the wrinkles. Or knowing we cannot protect ourselves of those we love from the evil actions of others. When the good things that happen become fewer against the bad. When we do something we instantly regret but cannot change it or the consequences that may cause terrible harm to ourselves or others.

    Hi paulpollis

    By choosing Jehovah God through his son Jesus's sacrifice we are choosing the the way for mankind to live! If there is this alternative why should I accept the futile reality?

  • JustHuman14

    What this world does provide, is many avenues of escapism entertainment that stop us seeing our lack.

    I totally agree with this statement debator. Just watch the recent World Cup in South Africa. Billions around the globe for an entire Month they sit in front of their TV screens to watch the games. Countries like Brazil, Argentina, who suffers a lot of poverty they forget their problems and just sit and watch. Even Spain, the World Champions in Football is facing serious financial problems and is considered to follow the footsteps of Greece.

    But look what happened: They are all happy, celebrating because of this. But this is just a tip of the iceberg. What I can see from the controlled Media around the Western World, is a system build to move away the attention of the people from serious problems. Even news is not actually news, just fabricated events. We have a huge flaw of reality shows; either has to do with music, action, survivor, or anything you can imagine.

    What they are doing about the serious problems that this planet is facing? NOTHNG...We are too busy watching American Idol, or Survivor, to THINK about our real problems and what is happening to this planet: Pollution, child labor, trafficking, child pornography, Human rights, women rights in most of the Islamic countries. We don't care really for others or how to make this place a better world for the future generations.

    We don’t mind buying a brand shoes or cloths from a country that people work for a Euro a day to make our clothing, or even worst a child of 6 is working 14 hours a day for a plate of food. We drive our luxury cars, polluting the environment, while we could have an environmental friendly car. We drink water from plastic bottles and through them way, without caring if that empty plastic bottle will need many years to melt.

    We sit on our sofa, watching TV programs that makes us stupid, eating junk food, drinking beer or coke, gettin literally and mentally FAT, unable to think…

  • designs


    Good observation, the 'fix' to their problem of living in the last days, open ended generation, will grind the zealous into the pavement. There is just to much of a dichotomy in the two views. The human mind seeks logic and resolution and you have neither with a 'last days' that could go on till the now twentysomethings are eightysomethings.

    Three JW family men who work for me and have kids in Junior High have not set one dime aside for their education because of believing the Society, those kids will rebel at some point wanting a better future for themselves.

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