Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes. (page 3)

debator

Hi Carla

I think you and I will have to agree to disagree since you seem to be unable to see any good in the witnesses. Thankfully countries and people that see them helping in disasters, teaching people to read and write and do sign language, as well as the bible morality stance that effects their followers, as well as seeing our faith and trust in Jehovah our God. These people respect our religious rights. You enjoy religious freedom now? this is because of witnesses you know. They pushed through most of our religious freedom laws that we have through the courts.

You bring up the resurrection of christ but it is only the witnesses that preach he was fully resurrected. The rest of Christendom say a god bit of Jesus didn't die and went to heaven and only the man bit got resurrected.

Jesus himself said the road was narrow and few were the ones finding it. Was Jesus lying?

Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

dgp

I think the biggest harm is a combination of the two. Say, for example, a 45 year old witness woman who dies because she refuses a transfusion.

elderelite

Debator,

i will add only this... I am an elder who has a pioneer for a wife. Between us we are lucky to get an hour or so a week of time together. Thats a generous estimate. The point that Jeff made is very valid. Its a treadmill of always so much to do for the kingdom. In the last four weeks that I have slowed down I have gotten so much done, seen my kids more than I ever dreamed I would and even got to have a little QT with the wife. My house is even clean for the first time in forever. I already hear you saying that the bible dosent advocate ignoring your wife and family. and your right it dosent. but the Branch does. Sacrifice for the Kingdom. give your all. the end is nigh. time for the wife and kids later, in the new world. I dont know if your married and have kids but some things give you persepective like no other... just sayin..

isaacaustin

Debator:

Hi Carla

I think you and I will have to agree to disagree since you seem to be unable to see any good in the witnesses.

My reply: Your famous saying when unable to establish your point. LOL

Debator said: Thankfully countries and people that see them helping in disasters, teaching people to read and write and do sign language, as well as the bible morality stance that effects their followers, as well as seeing our faith and trust in Jehovah our God. These people respect our religious rights. You enjoy religious freedom now? this is because of witnesses you know. They pushed through most of our religious freedom laws that we have through the courts.

My reply: The org produces outwardly oral people...lacking in love, compassion and Christians values...kind of like the whitewashed graves Jesus speaks of....something clean on the outside yet full of dead man's bones.

Debator: You bring up the resurrection of christ but it is only the witnesses that preach he was fully resurrected. The rest of Christendom say a god bit of Jesus didn't die and went to heaven and only the man bit got resurrected.

My reply: Witnesses do not preach he was fully resurrected- they preach that he was resurrected as a spirit. Myself and many Christians I know recognize his fleshly resurrection and dual nature.

Debator said: Jesus himself said the road was narrow and few were the ones finding it. Was Jesus lying?

Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

My reply: No, but the GB is on many issues.

booby

took to long typing so have been superceded by others but will post this anyway

We have a worldwide writing and reading program to teach people (which they benefit from even if they discontinue a study), Yup and the watchtower mag/rag is the most read in the world (meant to be sarcastic); we also have a worldwide sign language program for the deaf. Both of these statements are just silly. They imply that there is a program that is promoted and made available to ones having these handicaps outside the little world of witnesses and their kingdom preaching campaign. Remember that is worldwide also. Worldwide population around 7 billion, worldwide preaching work adherents around 7 million. And in disasters we help more people than just witnesses, circumstances allowing (circumstances that are few and far between) but even a government official recognised that if we just helped witnesses we are taking some of the burden off them which they can direct elsewhere and by being first in, (being first in is a witness delusion, check the news for accurate info) we open the ways for others. Our charity work is not done openly (what does that even mean - what charity work?) as others and our teaching bible morality to people that may have no concept of living by bible standards is also unrecognised. For example the positive changes in a pop idol that becomes a witness is only mocked on here even though many of his fans would be effected positively by his living by bible morality as apposed to supporting drug taking, immorality etc. By pop idol, one can guess of whom you speak, and his becoming a witness is not what is mocked. Rather it is the realization of the hollowness of what is claimed and the fact that he is still very much in the world that he has been for so long. His recent appearance at an awards show shows him to be much the same person he has always been.

isaacaustin

I agree fully with ATJ's assessment. As I said in my last post, the org does produce people who outwardly appear moral and law-abiding. However, that conceals a lack of love toward those not of the cult, limits friendships to conditional, cuts down on compassion and love shown to others...and creates a life of frustration in giving up basic joys of life to the demands of the org.

debator

Hi elderelite

I have simpathy for your burden as an elder it certainly isn't an easy job and as you can see on here. That people do not really recognise the full commitment and sacrifice of being an elder for the congregation they serve and for Jehovah. Since the bookstudy changed this has helped a little with the burden elders carry and in my local cong the burden is a very evenly spread out.

The Bible is also clear on elders duties knowing they have it hard.

1 Timothy 5:17
The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.

I know a few that step down for a while to recoup and come back stronger than ever. I hope you get through this hard time but don't let the people against witnesses on here spoil your love of Jehovah. The anointed also work hard and fully sacrifice their lifes even more than local elders it is the nature of the calling as Jesus himself recognised.

Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.

Yes this is a hyperbole but the principle and recognition of the sacrifice is there.

debator

Hi Isaac and booby

Why did Jesus heal less people in his hometown?

Matthew 13:57-58 (New International Version)

57 And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor."

58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

According to you Jesus would be condemned for this?

isaacaustin

Debator said:

Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.

Yes this is a hyperbole but the principle and recognition of the sacrifice is there.

My reply: For once I agree with something you said. I might also add that the principle also entails not loving family more than God.

Unfortunately the WT teaches this as literal, as opposed to symbolic in the case of those who leave the org. At the same time, the org stresses this hyperbolic hate towards one's family in favor of the org, which has a track record showing it to be something never having anything to do with God.

isaacaustin

debator said: Hi Isaac and booby

Why did Jesus heal less people in his hometown?

Matthew 13:57-58 (New International Version)

57 And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor."

58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

According to you Jesus would be condemned for this?

My reply: Not at all. Seemingly an irrelevant point to any of my comments....care to show the relevance?

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

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