Do any of you still believe in 'Hellfire'? heh (page 21)

theMadJW

Think on that- and the consequences of your church belief: have we ALWAYS been resurrected and judged at 'death'?

theMadJW

"When Jesus (in John 6) said: "I am the bread of life that came down from heaven."

What part of Jesus actually came down?"

Mad: How many 'parts' have you been taught he has????

Why do you insult the grace of God, by calling it "Escapism"?

Mad: It is your theology, not ANYTHING connected to God that I label escapism.

I don't need all the details. All I know is that the thief recieved a "FIRM PROMISE" to be in paradise without doing any works (unlike the JWs).

Mad: Yes, you DO need the DETAILS, since you claim to preach the "same gospel" he preached to that thief. Jesus, being Judge, can pardon Hitler, if he wished to! Prove what you said: How do you preach that 'gospel'- when you don't even know what it was? (NO DETAILS)

shamus100

MadJW,

Why are you so frightened of the monkey? Your downright anger and hostility indicates so.... your fright is self-evident.

Stop thinking and kiss the monkey, love. Come much closer and kiss me! God doesn't hate you, Jesus loves you.... and so does the monkey.

Don't frighten easily - be courageous! Kiss me!!

Leolaia

For example. they killed the Apostle Paul...but only temporairly- for he WILL live again! After all, Christ can and WILL EASILY re-form the body, and add his God and Father's spirit to it, so that Paul will onec AGAIN become a Living Soul!

Odd, them, that Paul himself referred to the body as mere clothing (what does the body clothe?), hoping that in death he would not be found "naked", such that he referred to the body as a "tent" (what is contained inside the tent?), and as preferring once he dies to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:1-8), such that he would be able to "depart and be with Christ" if he dies but until then he "remains in the body" (Philippians 1:23-24). He also allowed for the possibility for being "out of the body" even while alive during a revelatory experience (12:2; cf. Philo, De Somniis, 1.36, who claimed that Moses was made "bodiless" when he entered into the heavenly presence on Mount Sinai). Odd too that those pagan Greeks used clothing, tent, and naked metaphors to refer to the body's relationship with the soul.

And odd that Revelation makes reference to the "souls" of the dead martyrs in heaven awaiting their vengence and resurrection (6:9-11).

What is not odd is that Paul expected a future resurrection with the parousia of Christ, in which he would be clothed with an incorruptible body, but that should he die before his resurrection (like those mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:14), he would be found "unclothed" without his body, "away" from his body, while being "together with" (sun, denoting association/union/companionship in Philippians 1:23) his Lord. This is a reference to the intermediate state between death and resurrection, as is the case in Revelation 6 and in Luke 23:43 (compare with many other contemporary Jewish statements on the intermediate state, e.g. Josephus, Bellum Judaicum 3.8.5, cf. Josephus' statements on the Jewish beliefs of the soul in 2.163 and Antiquitates 18.14).

Deputy Dog

MadJW

Mad: How many 'parts' have you been taught he has????

According to Luke 12:4, at least 2, Body and Soul. So, if Jesus was an angel in heaven and was just a man on earth (as the JWs claim), what part of the angel came down?

Mad: It is your theology, not ANYTHING connected to God that I label escapism.

No, I call what the thief received, the grace of God, when I said that's what I share with people, you called that "Escapism". Some day you, like the theif, may stand before God wishing you could escape His justice and wrath. What will you call God's grace then?

Mad: Yes, you DO need the DETAILS, since you claim to preach the "same gospel" he preached to that thief. Jesus, being Judge, can pardon Hitler, if he wished to! Prove what you said: How do you preach that 'gospel'- when you don't even know what it was? (NO DETAILS)

Yes, I do have the important details. You said, "there are no details of all Christ may have explained to that thief." The important details are the fact that this thief knew he was a sinner with no hope and Jesus gave him the "FIRM PROMISE" (a FREE GIFT) of paradise. YES, I call that very good news indeed.

isaacaustin

I concur with Deputy Dog!

snowbird

Deputy Dog!

Sylvia

isaacaustin

Now MadJW, being that Deputy Dog answered your questions as far as what simple message of the good news he shares with others, I would be interested in hearing what good news you share with others.

theMadJW

Jesus said it would be the Good News of the KINGDOM that his followers would preach.

Not 'grace', nor the Personal Savior incantation. Yhose are just PARTS of the Good News!

Again-

Think of a world, a world without tears ... Rev. 7:14
Where a man can live for a thousand years .... Isa. 33:34
With never a grief, an ache or a pain ...
And never a thought of dying again ... Isa. 25:8

Think of a world where a man plants a vine ... Ps. 107:37
He can sit in it's shade and say 'This is mine'... Isa. 22:25
He will dwell in the house his own hands have made ... Isa. 65:21
And none shall molest him, or make him afraid .. Mic. 4:4

Think of world without bloodshed and strife ... Ps.. 46:9
Where no man can take another man's life ... Prov. 12:28
Where man everywhere will unite in peace ... Ps. 37:11
And malice and hatred forever will cease ... John 13:35

Think of a world as a green paradise ... Isa. 36:12
Where mountains and desserts dazzle your eyes ...Isa. 53:12
With bountiful flowers, trees and skies ... Isa. 3: 1, 2
With animals, birds and bright butterflies ... Ps. 10: 24

Think, just as sure, as God's word is truth ... John 17:17
A man will go back to the days of his youth ... Job 33:25
His flesh will become as the flesh of a child...
And the words that he speaks will be gentle and mild ... Matt. 5:5

Think of a world where a lame man will leap ... Isa. 35:6
Bounding and leaping -with a JOYFUL weep...
Where none will be deaf and the blind ones will see ..
And dumb ones will speak and sing joyfully ... Isa. 35:6

Think of a world where men are all Brothers ... Matt.. 23:8
Esteeming themselves not above any others ... Phil. 2:3
Where a man greets a man as a friend to a friend ... John 15:13-19
In a world without tears that will never end ... John 10:28

Think of a world where the dead will arise ... Jer. 31:17
From their silent tombs to a dream paradise ... John 11:23-26
To live forever in true peace and Love ... 1Cor. 16:14
And all will be cared for by the Great One above ... 1Pet. 5:6,7

Now a world without tears is not just a dream ... Heb. 6:10
To some, too good to be true it may seem ... Tit. 1:2
But just as sure, as God's word is true ... John 17:17
A world without tears now lies before you ... 2Pet. 3:13

So if these words have opened your eyes ... Luke 21:28
Would you like to live in Earth's Paradise .... Luke 23:43
To share all the blessings that God has in store ... 1Cor. 2:9
For all who would do His Will evermore ... Ps. 37:4

'Good News' of this Kingdom is still being sung ... Rev. 14:6
Throughout every nation and people and tongue ... Matt. 24:14
And all who are thirsting for Truth are invited .... Rev. 7:16,17
To accept this Good news, and are warmly united ... Rev.7:9

In Praising our God, and our Savior and King ... Jer. 10:10
Who give to us all, our life, everything ... Ps. 36:9
So that we might live through endless years ... John 6:51
In a world without sorrow. A world without tears ... Rev. 21:3, 4

- Anonymous JW

And that, TOO, is just a PART of the Good News about what the Kingdom of God will accomplish!

isaacaustin

Those are the secondary benefits of it. Of course the JW version leaves out living in Christ's presence and, sorry MadJW but grace exactly what was preached. The coming, death and rising of Jesus- that is grace...making the way for each and every person to accept a free pardon. Mix works in there, as the JWs do, and you have a gross corruption of the simplicity of what Jesus did for us and a complete falling from grace.

Refer to Romans 10:9-13 (please not using the NWT)

Do any of you still believe in 'Hellfire'? heh

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