Christian Arrogance

by startingover 104 Replies latest jw friends

  • bluesapphire

    I believe the Christian message is that God CHOSE EVERYONE! He didn't die just for Christians. He died for everyone. He wants everyone to choose him back. That's it in a nutshell.

    People have different styles. Some may come off obnoxious. Many, in fact, do. I deal with this on a daily basis. But I don't find Jesus to be obnoxious at all.

  • cameo-d

    Blue sapphire;"He didn't die just for Christians. He died for everyone"

    He did not die. He was ritually murdered. By a secret society cult that masqueraded as a religion.

  • BurnTheShips
    Bearing in mind that Christianity is based primarily on child sacrifice (Big J puts Little J on earth for one reason)

    No. That is how the JWs model it. Christians by and large do not divide the large "J" and the little "J", as you call it. They are one and the same being. God, as I see it, does not demand some satisfaction for us. He is greater than that. We are not "sinners in the hands of an angry God". God also does not need to vindicate his sovereignty. To think that the infinite being, the creator of everything, would need to vindicate anything about Himself is ridiculous.

    And besides, in some respects, perhaps substitutionary atonement is a poor way to understand what Christ means. It made sense to explain it this way to the Jews of that time because of their long familiarity with the Temple rites, but it makes less sense to us today. No Christian convert ever spent his life going to the Temple every year to make a sacrifice for his sins. I read this yesterday (and found it thought provoking):'s important to first understand its classic theological rival: the "penal substitution" view.

    This view is the common understanding of the cross, where Jesus came to be the sacrificial lamb that would appease God, the judge, for man's sins. In the penal substitution view, Jesus takes the place of the sinner, and if we say a prayer, join a church, or become a "Christian," then we sign into the contract that was made between God and Man, via his son Jesus. Of course, by doing so we also avoid hell and damnation, which is the alternative to the contract.

    Boyd's view is different – it's far more liberal. In his understanding, Christ did not come to take the place of sinners but came to free Christians from the shackles of the strong man: Satan. His theory is comparatively progressive because the emphasis of the cross translates to social action more than imperialistic evangelism. Its primary thrust is not the fear of hell but the need for change and healing.

    Jesus came to heal the world, and it was by healing the world (not by paying the debt of our sins) that he saved us. Jesus came to remove the blinders of hatred and to enlighten human beings to a more peaceful way of life. By dying on the cross, according to Boyd's Christus Victor theory, Jesus conquered the Kingdom of Satan once and for all. Now, since his departure from the earth, we're supposed to mimic his lifestyle until he returns to establish the new kingdom.

    Oppressing those we perceive as different is not a part of this gospel. Neither is war or violence, or aggression. The world needs love, and Christ was the turning point in the battle.

  • watson

    The Almighty is bi-polar.

    See: Hebrew Scriptures/Greek Scriptures

  • bluesapphire

    I hate religious debates. Yes a lot of Christians are obnoxious. Yes a lot of Christians are good people. Yes a lot of atheists are obnoxious. Yes a lot of atheists are good people.

  • BizzyBee

    "Christian Arrogance"

    After Shave..

    ......essence of beer and fried chicken, Outlaw?

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Nope Bizzy. Holy water and Aqua Velva.


  • The Scotsman
    The Scotsman

    You don't have to be christian to be arrogant.

    Plenty of arrogant people in the world - men, woman, christian, jew, muslim, hindu, young, old, black, white, religious, non religious, atheists etc etc.

    So as far as i am concerned anyone pointing the finger at another group and accusing them of being arrogant is being - well - arrogant!

    You say "Why has God not chosen me?" With all due respect you do not sound like someone who would want to be chosen - perhaps that's the answer to your question.

    The Scotsman

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    You say "Why has God not chosen me?" With all due respect you do not sound like someone who would want to be chosen - perhaps that's the answer to your question.

    The Scotsman

    What if you wanted to be chosen for decades and thought you were, then found out you weren't? Would it be arrogant to see how arrogant you had been with that, and how arrogant others are for thinking like that now - no kettle and pot in that case, eh?

    I don't see how it can be argued that there is a certain arrogance of aire when someone believes that Sky-Daddy has picked them as son/daughter, thus favoring them for everlasting cloud-dweller while planning a hot southern retreat for us 'uncalled and unchosen'.


  • beksbks


    that's why I added "(for the most part)".

    I think christians in America may have more of this attitude. Although, it was you Brits who slaughtered everyone who didn't agree with you.

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