John 13 says it all for me.
12When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. 13 "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16 I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.
33"My children, I will be with you only a little longer. You will look for me, and just as I told the Jews, so I tell you now: Where I am going, you cannot come.
34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
Some people take that to mean they should only love Christians. Jesus showed that he loved everyone. I realize these little debates and arguements have value for us, but I can't help but think that Jesus would have nothing to do with the piousness that some people spew in his name.
Perry, I think you are not a bad person. I think you are a fearful person. You are to quick to condemn what you feel is wicked and an abomination because somehow, you equate the hatred of your personal take on wickedness to be just as powerful and necesarry as love and acceptance is. Since Jesus said he/god would judge the wicked, why don't you just leave it with them?
Your humble confessions of your own filth do little for me. Jesus had a much more attractive message then "I am a sinner, woe is me."
We can go back and forth on this. I won't do that tonight. I feel sad that anyone would dare talk of wickedness when no one is qualified to judge their brother. But Jesus did say that if you want to see a Christian, then love one another. I never sense your love Perry, only pious judging of others as a contrast to your spiffy new relationship with Christ.
But Jesus said to love one another...
Sounds good to me. In the meantime, I will not condemn a person who in his personal or private life harms no one but the offended imaginations of a few loudmouths. I say that with brutal honesty, tinged with respect.
I pretty much agree with your post ATJ. However I think that to Perry, posting what he believes to be the truth on this board (and let me add that I do disagree with Perry on many details), is acting in a way that he believes is loving to us. He is trying to spread the gospel as he has come to understand it.
BTS, I understand that. It really is the struggle of Christianity at the moment isn't it, a stricter fundamentalist view of Christianity (i.e. Pauline Christianity) or a more strict adherance to the words of Jesus in the gospels alone, without the Pauline influence.
I go more for the gospels alone.
Perry isn't being persecuted. Believe me, I talk about myself a lot. I can smell it a mile away. Perry's context is always himself, not others. Jesus context was always others, not himself. To me, that is a big difference.
But like I said, I don't think Perry is a bad person.
Sorry for the indirectness. Perry, I don't think you are a bad person.
Man created God, not the other way around. And his creation was flawed.
Changeling, if you believe that man created God, that is your right. I respect that. And so does God.
I would like for my children to love me and respect me as I do them
This is what Christians do.
I find many to be arrogant, as particularly revealed in the initial post quoting one of them in my thread I believe.
They excuse god for his false promises, his inability or lack of interest in mankind, and put themselves high on a 'special ' pedestal as his 'servant'. If I knew of any such worthless fleshly 'father' I could never respect him, love him, or protect him from honest charges. Some Christians in an effort to protect their fantasy of 'eternal life' with such a father, continue to protect him. It certainly sounds arrogant to me.
On general though - I find no more or less arrogance among Christians than the general population.
I hope you are not implying Christians are unique in showing love and respect for others. Surely you realize people of all sorts have these qualities. And I'm certain you realize many a Christian is lacking in the love and respect department.
However I think that to Perry, posting what he believes to be the truth on this board (and let me add that I do disagree with Perry on many details), is acting in a way that he believes is loving to us. He is trying to spread the gospel as he has come to understand it.
Horse puckey. It's the same thing that attracted so many JW's. The need to feel superior.
They excuse god for his false promises
What false promises are those Jeff?
I hope you are not implying Christians are unique in showing love and respect for others.
Not at all changeling, all have that capacity. I was drawing a comparison on your stated desire for your children to love and respect you because of what you have done for them as a loving parent.
Arrogance seems to be a human condition of all. It exists among people within a religious culture, religions against another religion, beliefs against beliefs, politics against politics, educational schools against education school, governments against governments, business organizations in competition against other businesses. We all like to think of ourselves individually of having good knowledge or perception. However, when any are very arrogant, it stirs up dissention, irritation and even anger. Facts are, when there is fighting and arguments, right or wrong, then both sides lose. Nothing gained for very long.
p.s. However, we are "ALL" right that the Watchtower organization is a lying, arrogant, negative, destructive cult!