IS THE WATCHTOWER A FALSE PROPHET?

by You Know 207 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JT
    JT

    YK Wrong AGAIN:

    "So, it is impossible to identify the false teachers unless first we identify the true Christian Congregation"

    ----------
    NOW ANY serious student of the bible knows the above is a joke.

    Ask any person : How do you ID a false teacher"

    answer: "His teachings would be false and not supported by the bible"

    dUHHHHHHHHHHHH

    there is no need to know the true congreagation BEFORE YOU can ID a false teacher

    so guy on the street is teaching - "It's OK to kill and steal cause the bible says so"

    most folks would quickly realize that his teachings are false thereby making him a false teacher- did anyone have to know the true congregation to realize that simple point?

    so yk like so many of jw make up stuff as they go along

    you see the real KICKER is the wt has so much stuff in print that guys like YK must try to wease out of what the wt has printed and taught sometimes for decades as they attempt to explain the unexplainble-

  • You Know
    You Know
    there is no need to know the true congreagation BEFORE YOU can ID a false teacher

    Not according to the prophecies, for according to both Peter and Jude, the false teachers are among Jehovah's people. The Scriptures in Jude, for example, plainly say that "certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures." Peter also stated, as I pointed out, that the false teachers would be among true Christians. In the case of counterfiet money, phony bills only have worth in relation to legitimate currency. By the same reasoning, the intent of false teachers is to fool people into thinking that they are the true teachers, just as you are trying to do; but, not to belabor the obvious, but without the truth there would be no such thing as apostasy. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about, no doubt due to the self-evident fact that you are under the influence of the false teachers and have become one yourself. / You Know

  • JT
    JT

    YK

    it is real simple YK, but this is for the lurkers
    --------

    If you step onto the World Scene:

    1. And annouce that you are the ONLY and True MouthPC of God

    2. That god directs what is in your publications

    3. Any one who openingly questions what you say
    is questioning god himself ( YK- see your
    last elder's schools notes- o that's right
    you don;t even qualify to carry the mikes
    in your hall- ck the apostates sites for the notes then)

    YOU HAD BETTER GET IT RIGHT

    you see -folks like YK can not find ONE - NOT ONE OFFICIAL teaching of the apostles or any other person IN THE BIBLE who was directed by god who got the MESSAGE WRONG-

    IT IS REAL SIMPLE if you make a claim like wt does and they are always claiming that they are a Prophet then you got to live up to it

    there is no such thing in the bible as a "Prophet" or as some jw say a "Quasi-Prophet"

    now this my friend is the type of information you show to a NONJW and when they read the post of guys like YK they SEE RIGHT THRU THE WEAK ATTEMPT TO MAKE A POINT

  • biblexaminer
    biblexaminer

    JT has it right here

    YK is full of cow filth.

    The deceptive comparison (taken right from the WTS) between the Watchtower's false prophecies, -and the supposed Apostles private ponderings, is a way for a discerning mind to see the deception in the false YK's Satan-like words.

    The WTS, and also their jw.com minion (YK), use a bait and switch technique as did Satan when he attempted to decieve Jesus. YK uses three coconuts. He puts his false idea under one coconut, and then moves the three cocnuts around and opens another.

    The fact that YK repeats the WTS party line shows that he is just a brainless dub. To DUB a tape, one records over what was there originally. That is what YK is, a DUB. His mind has been DUBBED over with WTS rhetoric garbage.

    *** Rbi8 Deuteronomy 18:20-22 ***
    20 “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’
    This is an unbending criteria, and easily identifies the Watchtower Fable and Crap Society as a FALSE PROPHET.

    Lists of their statements are far too plentiful and available to deny and YK knows this. Yet he/she/it still defends them.

    So what does that make YK? I will let the working minds who read supply their own answer.

  • cynicus
    cynicus

    COMF said:

    YK, has the Watchtower ever used the old, non-Christian method of determining false prophets when dealing with Christians?
    Since YK never answers questions of this kind, I'll do. Let's have a look at Paradise Restored To Mankind-By Theocracy!, 1972, chapter 20.

    After discussing the prophecy in Zechariah 13, about "the prophets and the spirit of uncleanness" and applying it to "our time since the year 1919 C.E." (paragraph 14, 15, 16). References are made to Jesus words about "false Christs and false prophets," in Matthew 24; to Johns words about "false prophets" and their expressions in 1 John 4; this in the context of the need that the remnant of the spiritual Israel needs to be guarded against "false prophets".

    18 How, then, did Jehovah keep their “land” or spiritual estate pure in worship by fulfilling his promise: “Also the prophets and the spirit of uncleanness I shall cause to pass out of the land.”? (Zechariah 13:2) It was by causing any wrong understandings of the Bible prophecies that had been entertained before the remnant’s reinstatement in their “land” in 1919 C.E. to be corrected. The “time of the end,” the “conclusion of the system of things,” that began in 1914 at the end of the Gentile Times was God’s appointed time for the fulfillment of many prophecies. These could not be understood until they were just about to be fulfilled or after they had been fulfilled. So in the light of all that was taking place since 1914 the reinstated remnant looked anew into the prophecies that God had reserved for the “time of the end” for their fulfillment. (Daniel 12:4; Revelation 10:6, 7) This included a restudy of the books of Ezekiel and Revelation, an explanation of which had been attempted and published in July of 1917 in the book entitled “The Finished Mystery.” Thus the restored remnant heeded the words:

    19 “We have the prophetic word made more sure; and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and a daystar rises, in your hearts. For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.” — 2 Peter 1:19-21.

    20 Any attempted interpretation of prophecy, if it proved to be incorrect in the light of historic events and the clearer understanding of the Bible, was corrected, regardless of who had offered the interpretation. Loyalty to God and to his inspired Word was the issue here to be met. So, as an illustration of the loyalty required, even if a fleshly son should offer a wrong interpretation of divine prophecy and should persist in it, like a false prophet, then his own fleshly parents in their loyalty to God would have nothing further to do with him on a religious basis. Christian parents could not do as under the Mosaic Law covenant, namely, have him put to death; but they could pronounce him spiritually dead to themselves in spite of their parenthood of him physically. In this way, figuratively speaking, they “must pierce him through because of his prophesying.” (Zechariah 13:3; compare Deuteronomy 13:1-5.) With their full consent, such a false prophet would be expelled, disfellowshiped, from the Christian congregation. By such loyalty on the part of all members of the restored remnant, the “prophet” of falsehood would be made to pass out of their “land.”

    21 Yes, too, the “spirit of uncleanness” would thus be made to pass out of their spiritual “land.” If that spirit were an inspired expression of uncleanness by a would-be prophet or was any tendency, trend, or inclination to uncleanness, it would be disapproved and resisted by the loyal ones. As a consequence any uncleanness as to religious teaching or as to moral behavior would be forced to pass out, under the driving force of God’s holy spirit. The God-given spiritual estate must be maintained as a “land” where clean, Scriptural living is carried on. Persons spiritually and morally unclean must be disfellowshiped therefrom. — 2 Corinthians 6:14 to 7:1; compare Deuteronomy 13:6-18.

    Is it the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society or is it an "[apostate's]con game" who is applying Deuteronomy chapter 13 here to 'modern-day' prophets? The application to Christians is directly made in clear terms: no stoning, but spiritual death by figurative piercing, expelling and disfellowshipping!

    Is any exception made as to the kind of prophecy? Are historic interpretations exempt? Not really. The WTBS teaches that "any attempted interpretation of prophecy" is subject to the above application.

    What then about the argument that according to this "satanic reasoning of apostates ... the apostles of Christ would also be branded as false prophets"? This would be true if the apostles indeed claimed about themselves that they were prophets. But the apostles never did that. It's the WTBS who has made the claim of being a true prophet! And therefore the Mosaical principle about discerning true and false prophets can be justly applied to this organisation and her prophecies.

    ---
    Every absurdity has a champion to defend it.

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    Today, the answer to the question, “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has spoken?” can be easily answered by simply consulting the Bible. According to our faith that is indeed the word that Jehovah has spoken.

    That's not entirely true. While JW's do acknowledge that the Bible is God's Word, the bottom line for them is the interpretation of the Bible put forth by the organization. The organization claims to be God's only channel of communication with mankind for our day, and that it is impossible to understand the Bible apart from them. So, in practice, to JW's, the writings of the organization are also part of the 'word that Jehovah has spoken.' And the Watchtower makes no effort to discourage this worshipful attitude, in fact, they encourage it by speaking of their writings as 'spiritual food' that Jehovah has provided. Since they make those claims, they must be subject to the same high standard of proof. Especially so, since they demand absolute obedience to those writings under pain of disfellowshipping and unscriptural shunning.

    John goes on to explain how to test the validity of those who claim to speak for God, saying: “You gain the knowledge of the inspired expression from God by this: Every inspired expression that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God, but every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God.”
    Where does it say that this is the test for false prophets particularly? Even if we take it as that, all the churches of Christendom acknowledge that Jesus has come in the flesh. Your opinion that:

    In fact, Christendom’s Trinity doctrine cleverly denies Jesus as being a mere flesh and blood mortal. That’s because the doctrine makes him out to be a super human incarnation of God.
    betrays your lack of understanding of the trinity doctrine. He was not 'superhuman,' he was fully God and fully man. 100% God and 100% man. To say that the fact that he was not only a man means that he has not 'come in the flesh' is absurd. If the only qualification for being a true prophet is to acknowledge that Jesus came in the flesh, then pretty much all of Christendom qualifies.

    If that were the case then the apostles were false prophets themselves because they had many erroneous ideas about when Christ was going to set up his kingdom. Similar to our own 1975 fiasco, and other similar embarrassments and goofs, the apostles even spread a rumor among the brothers that Jesus would return before John died.
    The apostles and other early Christians certainly held their ideas about what would occur in the future, and some of them were indeed erroneous. However, I do not read of the apostles making the claim to be speaking for God when advancing these ideas. Anyone can speculate, but the Watchtower advances its speculations as "Jehovah's word through Jesus Christ" and "the Creator's promise". This sort of claim to prophetic status raises the stakes. It is not every word spoken by a prophet that is subject to the test of Deuteronomy 18:22, but only "when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true."

    It's simple really: the Watchtower said it was "the Creator's promise" that the generation of 1914 would see the end of the system of things. Now, that generation is substantially gone, and the Watchtower has changed its teaching on the subject. So the question that needs to be addressed is simply this: Who was lying? Was the Creator lying when He made that promise? Or was the Watchtower lying when it told us that its teaching was the Creator's promise? Even if we accepted your idea that Deuteronomy 18 does not apply in the Christian era, the Watchtower is still seen to be a presumptuous liar.

    But there is ample reason to believe that Deuteronomy 18 does apply in the Christian era. I say this because Jesus warned his disciples about false prophets without explanation of what a flase prophet is. If the standard for determining who is a false prophet was changing, why would Jesus warn about them without explaining how to figure out who they were? The answer is that there was to be no change. The disciples already knew how to determine who was a false prophet. The New Testament scriptures you cite were an expansion of, not a replacement for, the principle set forth at Deuteronomy 18.

    Jesus is the founder and head of a unique spiritual organization that was foretold in prophecy to be a people who are called by God's own name of Jehovah.
    That is a statement completely unsupported by scripture. The word "organization" never appears in the Bible, therefore the doctrine cannot be true. (I'm being a bit sarcastic here; that, after all, is the argument JW's use against the Trinity) But my point is that the statement that the organization was foretold in prophecy is completely based upon acceptance of the Watchtower's interpretation of prophecy. In effect, the Watchtower says, "We are God's organization because our interpretation of Bible prophecy says that we are."

    People believe what they want for their own selfish reasons and therefore are quick to gulp down slander and falsity in order to allow themselves to indulge in their favorite fantasies without the pangs of conscience.
    Which explains the Wathctower having six million followers today despite their abominable record of lies and false prophecies.

    that means that there would also be a group of true Christians who would be doing the work of preaching about Christ's presence and announcing God's kingdom.
    Where did Jesus say it would be "a group"? Jesus predicted that the good news would be preached, not that "a group" would do it. Typical Watchtower deceptive technique, that of inserting a concept that isn't in the scripture to bolster their argument.

    The good news (or gospel), of course, is specifically defined by Paul at 1 Cor. 15:2-4:

    2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures
    Now, if you ask a JW who comes to your door what is the good news that he is preaching, how many will respond with the above scripture? Obviously, the Bible's good news is not what is being preached by Jehovah's Witnesses. However, that message is being spread worldwide by millions upon millions of individual Christians from different denominations and groups, different nations and languages. The concept that there would be only one group or organization doing so is foreign to scripture.

    For if Jehovah's Witnesses are the false prophets that Christ foretold who are the true ones?
    Christ didn't tell us to watch for true prophets in the last days; only for false prophets. The Watchtower clearly qualifies as the latter. And, even if by your elaborate human reasonings, you manage to nullify in a technical sense the scriptures proving them so, they are still, as I have pointed out above, presumptuous liars. The true prophets are the ones who wrote the Bible, and those are all the writings we need to understand God's will for us, not the self-serving ramblings of a cultic and totalitarian organization.

    But, the bottom line is that the failings of individuals within the nation of Israel did not prevent God from acomplishing his stated purpose with them. The organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is in the exact same position today. Nothing in any of our failings really disqualifies us from accomplishing Jehovah's stated purpose in connection with his spiritual Israel. The Christian Scriptures in fact warn and empower us, provided God's word lives in us, to overcome the multiplicity of problems that exist in the congregations.
    Everything you say in the above quote could also be said of the Catholic Church. Who is to say that God's word 'lives in' Jehovah's Witnesses any more than in Catholics or other Christians? The evidence in the behavior of the Watchtower organization in so many areas overwhelmingly indicates a lack of God's spirit. But you continue to apply the double standard: among all religions, only Jehovah's Witnesses are not called to account for their failings. If there are pedophile priests in the Catholic Church, the Watchtower will herald it far and wide, But pedophile elders at the Kingdom Halls? It won't even be acknowledged, and if it is exposed from outside, it will be covered up and excused. What hypocrites! One thing is clear to me; if there is a "group" preaching the good news today and representing God, it is NOT Jehovah's Witnesses - God would never allow such a corrupt people to represent him!

    Tom
    "The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

  • You Know
    You Know

    Bible Exhumer:

    He puts his false idea under one coconut, and then moves the three cocnuts around and opens another.

    You are unable to refute me so your only tactic is to resort to diversionary nonsense, ridicule, and personal attacks.

    The fact that YK repeats the WTS party line shows that he is just a brainless dub.
    Okay, that's easy: The fact that Bible Exhumer repeats the apostate party line shows that he is just a brainless apostate dub. See how easy that is kids? Actually, I wasn't repeating anything I have ever read in the Watchtower. I don't know if they have ever really used that line of reasoning before. I just let the Scriptures speak for themselves and that is all that is neeeded to set matters straight, provided that one is of that right frame of mind, which eliminates 99% of you people.

    This is an unbending criteria, and easily identifies the Watchtower Fable and Crap Society as a FALSE PROPHET.
    Yeah, sure it does, as long as one obeys you and doesn't look over at the little man behind the curtain frantically pulling the levers. LOL

    So what does that make YK? I will let the working minds who read supply their own answer.
    YK is not the issue. I merely reasoned from the Scriptures bringing the writings of Christian prophets to bear on the topic and any thinking readers can see for themselves that neither you or anyone else has had any reasonable answer to my post. / You Know
  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns
    If you step onto the World Scene:

    1. And annouce that you are the ONLY and True MouthPC of God

    2. That god directs what is in your publications

    3. Any one who openingly questions what you say
    is questioning god himself ( YK- see your
    last elder's schools notes- o that's right
    you don;t even qualify to carry the mikes
    in your hall- ck the apostates sites for the notes then)

    YOU HAD BETTER GET IT RIGHT

    It doesn't get any more simpler and more direct than this. Whether they are prophecying or interpreting or however sincere and 'watchful' or 'over-optimistic' they have been is irrelavant when you understand the above.

    There is just no room for error when you make the claims they have. And when you can't be man enough to accept responsibility for your mistakes and when you try to pass them off on others, then that makes it even worse.

    Thanks JT

    Path

  • jayhawk
    jayhawk

    Quote from You Know,

    Jesus is the founder and head of a unique spiritual organization that was foretold in prophecy to be a people who are called by God's own name of Jehovah.

    If that is so, you need to put the scripture with it. However even if there is a scripture that says, "before the last days end there will be an orginization with my father's name attached." the Society would still be wrong. Why? You Know, you have one thing working against you, Jehovah is the most improper way to pronounce the Hebrew God's name.

    Regarding the Watchtower being a false prophet, I can say this. Every time a prophecy fails and every time "new light" TM is needed because of a failed prophecy, they say we are not a prophet. Surely you have actually read the literature and seen them write it.

    Oh, and by the way You Know, you are not off the hook yourself about your own failed prophecy. The economy is already rebounding here in America's Heartland.

    "Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

    Jeremy's Hate Mail Hall Of Fame.
    http://hometown.aol.com/onjehovahside/ and [email protected]

  • You Know
    You Know

    Cynicus

    Since YK never answers questions of this kind...

    I answered that question in acknowledging that the Law applied in principle and that that was the basis for identifying the false prophets who would arise from among Jehovah's people. But, since the time that the Bible was completed it is no longer necessary for God to inspire men to foretell the future, so the true and false prophets are identified today by a different method. / You Know

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