IS THE WATCHTOWER A FALSE PROPHET?

by You Know 207 Replies latest watchtower bible

You Know

Jellomould:
Are there those who "ridicule" the message? Maybe that's because it's ridiculous? Well, laughable at least.
You reasonaing is laughable. Pitiful would probably be a more apt description. Here's why:
The world is constantly changing. Who is debating that? It is a simple fact.
The reasoning of the ridiculer, even as reflected in your post, is that the present changes are not as a result of any presence of Christ.
More people have died the 20th century from war than in... yada yada yada. Well, don't you expect this to happen? There are more people nowadays then ever before.
Population density relative to war casualties has no bearing on prophecy. True, the Watchtower has at times cited the horrific death toll of WWI as a means of hightlighting the significance of it, but Jesus' prophecy said nothing about body counts of population ratios. He merely foretold that nation would rise against nation as one aspect of the over all sign that would indicate his presence. So your reasoning is totally specious.
A average young man of 20 in today's world is far less likely to be called into military duty and subsequently die on the battlefield than the world of 100, 200, etc... years ago. Also because there are more people than ever before, allowing relatively smaller military resources.
True. Of course none of that has anything to do with prophecy either. Jesus said nothing about the size of armies. Of course, one of the leading causes of death in young men today, particularly in Africa, is the spread of AIDS, which Jesus also foretold that pestilence would be antoher aspect of the sign. So, again, you are merely deluding yourself with what you probably imagine is sound reasoning.
The message of doom is laughable because it attempts to absolve the speaker of responsibility for the future outcome!
Your reasoning here is laughable. Pointing out the futility of human rulership does not absolve anyone of responsibility. Our message makes the world more accountable to God, not less so.
For what reason do we have prophets 'communicating with God' if they bring back to the table problems instead of solutions?! A little optimism goes a long way, especially if you're in cahoots with God.
You simply regect Jehovah's solution as unacceptable, while accepting the problems as a neccesary evil to getting on in the world. Your type of attitude is the main problem in the world.
It is clearly the pessimistic doomsayer that yearns to 'live in a world that continues on as in the past'.
That doesn't even make sense. You are borderline raving. Those who love God, and life, and mankind, desperately yearn for God to fulfill his promise of a New World. How is that yearning to live in the past? To a worldling who loves this system of things, anyone who points out the obvious terminal nature of mankind's stupidity and greed is a pessimist. / You Know
ElijahTheThird

IMHO
That the WT has printed false teachings, YES! BUT, how did this happen?
NOTE 1.; The Anointed are to gather themselves together to discuss the "insight" they receive. To receive conformation or denial from each others "insight".
STOPED!IF the Anointed attempt to meet and talk with each other they are DF'd IMEDIATLY! NO DISCUSSION! NO CONFORMATION POSSIBLE!
SOLUTION! The internet! Where those with the "insight" can gather and discuss what they are given to know. With out the Big Brother of the WT/GB crapping in the clean waters!
NOTE 2.; The letters of insight that were wrote to the GB/WT by the Anointed are then given to whom? Processed and decided upon by whom? What, if any, of the "insight" that was wrote in actually made it into the WT?
STOPED! That insight is now in the hands of people with out the Anointing. Those that have this insight are waking up to the fact that the WT/GB have tampered with these letters of insight! We don't see what we have wrote in and warned, or told them about! Only when we have met and discussed these things in person or by phone or the internet have we found out of this DECEPTION!!!
SOLUTION! The internet!
NOTE 3.; As those with the calling to become Anointed and are given this insight into the scriptures have been kicked out of JW's, where are they now? They are declaired and branded APOSTATE by those with out insight! Who will listen to them now?
STOPED NO ! ! !
SOLUTION! The INTERNET! Where we can gather freely with out reprisals and reprocussions!
Think about it.
Englishman

You Know,
I see that you are up and posting, please would you confirm that my understanding that was outlined in my earlier post is correct. Also, if that is the case, are you saying that the WTBTS are not actually prophets but are in fact simply relaying prophesy as they understand it, and does that not, in itself, put a great responsibility upon those that do the interpreting?
Englishman.
Bring on the dancing girls!
You Know

25Ashitaka25:
Do you believe in the Witnesses, and their movement?
That's the wrong question. I believe in Jehovah and his movement as outlined in the Holy Scriptures. So from that perspective I believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are serving Jehovah's purpose. That doesn't mean that Jehovah approves of everthing Jehovah's Witnesses say and do. I know better than that. But, I believe the evidence at hand indicates that the nation of Israel similarly fulfilled God's pupose long ago and we all have some idea of how often the nation deviated from Jehovah in various ways. But, the bottom line is that the failings of individuals within the nation of Israel did not prevent God from acomplishing his stated purpose with them. The organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is in the exact same position today. Nothing in any of our failings really disqualifies us from accomplishing Jehovah's stated purpose in connection with his spiritual Israel. The Christian Scriptures in fact warn and empower us, provided God's word lives in us, to overcome the multiplicity of problems that exist in the congregations. / You Know
25ashitaka25

Thank you, You Know.
indireneed

That is a good point - Jehovah continued to use the Israelites even though they had made mistakes and done terrible things against his name.
With this in mind, how can one claim that one sect of Christianity has authority if they have only existed for 120 years? The Catholic Church has made no more mistakes than did the Israelites - why can't they still be chosen?
The argument you make appears to move towards an individual viewpoint, not an organizational viewpoint. Jehovah judges each person based on that person, not based on his ties to an organization. Do you really think assocation with one of the 'anointed flock' is what Jehovah had in mind in sending his son?
Englishman

You Know,
OK, so you have chosen not to answer me, I hadn't realisied that you were so afflicted by by WTBTS influence that you would stoop so low as to apply shunning policies on this board, never mind your appalling lack of social graces.
No matter, lurkers and those who are wondering about whether or not to carry on as JW's will see your unwillingness to take part in logical discussion as being simply arrogant dub behaviour. No doubt they will look at themselves and vow that they never want to become as rude as you are.
Englishman.
Bring on the dancing girls!
You Know

Why is the word Greek word for Prophet in the bible translated into English as the word prophet if that not what is ment?
A prophet is primarily a teacher---whether true or false. The Hebrew prophets were also teachers of God's law in that they tried to reprove the hearer in order for them to return to the law. The connection between the sort of Old Testament false prophets that claimed to have spoken with God, or been inspired by a dream to make predicitions of future events, and the sort of false teachers the New Testament talks about, is made at 2 Peter 2:1, which, for your convenience reads: "However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them...Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. Also, with covetousness they will exploit you with counterfiet words."
Notice that the apostle likens false teachers in the Christian congregation to the false prophets that sought to mislead the Israelites. This passage shows first off, that false prophets and false teachers exist only in realtion to the congregation in that they are AMONG God's people. So, it is impossible to identify the false teachers unless first we identify the true Christian Congregation. That simple fact shows that the apostates' accusation that we are false prophets is ludicrious.
The false teachers are also identified by their using "counterfiet words." That is exactly what apostate JW's do. The very fact that they would use the Scriptures to make their accusation that we are false prophets is an example of using counterfiet words. Also, the false teachers lead others into loose conduct. The Watchtower is not guilty of that. They have only sought to uplift us to live by Christ's moral law. Apostates of course are likened to unclean dogs and by all accounts many on this board are just that. Finally, the false teachers cause the "way of the truth" to "be spoken of abusively." Apostates are responsible for advertising the Watchtower's every mistep and the sins of their local elders and even family members and have definitely caused the truth to be spoken of abusively. Of course, in the minds of apostates they are doing the work of God by exposing evil in the organization. That thinking is the basis for the seductive power of apostasy and enables the false teachers to decieve others by making themselves appaear as liberators. "While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are existing as slaves of corruption."/ You Know
JT

Once again YK makes the same mistake that so many jw make when trying to REDEFINE A PROPHET. and this is what is so clear to anyone who does any research into wt literature. note just a few points he makes:
"If that were the case then the apostles were false prophets themselves because they had many erroneous ideas about when Christ was going to set up his kingdom."
############
now this is the old "half truth" that jw use above- while YK is 100% correct that the apostles and some erroneious ideas - what he fails to say is these were PERSONSAL VIEWS NOT THE OFFICAL TEACHING OF THE 1ST CENTURY CONGO- unlike wt thier erronrious ideas are taught as OFFICAL TEACHING- NOTE HOW HE TRIES TO CONNNECT WHAT the apostles did to what wt does he uses the word
"Similar"- to our own 1975 fiasco, and other similar embarrassments and goofs,
--------no there is no "similar" you just tried to make it such- to make the point even clearer notice what he next says:
"the apostles even spread a rumor among the brothers that Jesus would return before John died."
--------
once again he is 100% correct- but we are back where we started- there is a big difference between spreading a rumore and "Preaching the Good /News of God's Kingdom" by proclaiming that that the end will come in 1925,that the bible teaches blood fractions are agains the bible and then change, that one must go to jail instead of alternative service- yes teaching that the GENRATION OF 1914 WILL NOT DIE OFF
L'et's ask YK which of these teachings were being spread around the world in 210 languages were merely RUMORS like what the apostles did-
you see YK demostrate dishonesty much like the wt- and why
well you see YK like the WT uses 2 sets of scales-
when they describe FALSE PROPHET and it is being applied to the churches of christodom they have one DEFINTION, but
when they apply it to themselves they have another definition
you see for years the wt has ref the text in Duet in connection with other faiths claiming to be prophets/spokesmen of god etc
and they have condemned them and rightly so when they got stuff wrong
yet they don't want to be held to the same standard
personally i could care less if YK gets the point- what i personally enjoy is when you show a NONJW the standard that wt uses to judge their religion and how as YK has so clearly demosrtrated wt don't
want you to use the same scales on them
i love it when guys like you try to REWRITE AND REDEFINE words and their meaning when everyone else knows they are just grabbing for straws
i love when a jw uses such phrases as:
“According to the criteria laid down by the apostle, the real test is not whether Christians have misunderstood chronology or misapplied, as-of-yet, unsealed prophecies”
with this line of reasoning then any group could say what they wanted to- in fact one would expect with God’s HS spirit directing the these being written in the Wt has they have so many times claimed – that information would not be misunderstood and misapplied in view of the fact that you have been put in charge of ALL THE MASTERS BELONGINGS AND 6 BILLION FOLKS MUST LOOK TO YOU as the one and only true channel and here we got this clown talking about YOU CAN MISAPPLY AND MISUNDETSTAND LIFE AND DEATH BIBLE TEXT
sounds like HS ain’t doing a good job at directing what is being printed in the wt
most folks will concede that we all have personal thoughts on a bible text perhaps. But when the church makes an OFFICAL ANNOUNCEMENT under the guise that they are directed by God THEN THEY NEED TO STEP up to the plate and get it right
ESPECAILY IF THEY Are going to dog other faiths when they get it wrong.
Most of us understand how painful it is for YK and others to claim to be directed by god and then say that god directs what goes into the publicationsa nd then it always turns out wrong.
It hurts YK and we all understand for many of us wanted it to be TRUE as well , BUT the facts don’t support it- instead all we have are group of guys giving it their best Guess on matters AND requiring all rank and file to accept it as if Moses had written it himself
How sad
james
You Know

Once again YK makes the same mistake that so many jw make when trying to REDEFINE A PROPHET.
Not true. I haven't redefined what a prophet is. Instead, I have allowed the Bible to speak for itself. / You Know

IS THE WATCHTOWER A FALSE PROPHET?

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