IS THE WATCHTOWER A FALSE PROPHET?

by You Know 207 Replies latest watchtower bible

You Know

Jayhawk: Citing a dozen or so references doesn't prove anything. Those references are wrong. I proved they are wrong using the Bible's own pronunciation of various names that incorporate the divine name. / You Know
jayhawk2

Oh sure You Know, everybody else is wrong, and ONLY you are right. Whatever Dude.
TR

Jayhawk,
as YK's pic represents, he's been battered with sound reasoning, but he's alive and keeps crawling back with the same punchdrunk spewings.
TR
"YK is my name, false prophecy is my game"
jayhawk2

You Know,
Why don't you answer Englishman's questions? It seems that their is a thread around here where he claims you are stumped. By the way, have you ever considered that all of the names you have mentioned were also mistranslated. The scholars of the thirteenth century were not exactly on top of their game. After all many of them still thought the world was flat. I still don't buy that "J" replaces the "Y" thing. If we fixed all of the mistakes made in the thirteenth century regarding names, nobody would know who we were talking about. However, I would think fixing God's Name would be very important.
You Know

you dissapoint me.
Then I can go to bed tonight with a smile on my face.
in a previous thread, you made it very clear that you NEVER dodge questions due to inability to answer,
That's correct. At times I ignore questioners but that shouldn't be construed that I have no answer. I enjoy answering questions and challenges to my faith. That's why I participate in a forum like this.
yet ive watched you do it several times in this thread. please address these inquiries directed at you, unless you are unable:
Sure.
Also. I am not familiar that it says IN SCRIPTURE that the apostles PUBLICLY SPREAD false teaching about the return of Christ.If they did, please cite scripture ref so I can check it.
I already cited the 21st chapter of John. Part of the problem in your jumping to conclusions that I am dodging questions is that you are for the most part apparently Biblically illiterate.
Is it the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society or is it an "[apostate's]con game" who is applying Deuteronomy chapter 13 here to 'modern-day' prophets? The application to Christians is directly made in clear terms: no stoning, but spiritual death by figurative piercing, expelling and disfellowshipping!
Is it a revelation that we are not under the Law? I think I explained clearly enough how the situation has changed since the time the Law of Moses was written. God no longer inspires men to foretell the future so that criteria for judging between true and false prophets is no longer valid but the principle is valid.
What then about the argument that according to this "satanic reasoning of apostates ... the apostles of Christ would also be branded as false prophets"? This would be true if the apostles indeed claimed about themselves that they were prophets. But the apostles never did that. It's the WTBS who has made the claim of being a true prophet!
The apostles were prophets. Revelation is the most important prophecy in the Bible and it was recorded by the apostle John. Peter also recorded numerous prophecies. Why the very prophecy that helps us identify the true false prophets was recorded by the apostle Peter. And of course Paul, while not one of the original 12, was also a prophet who was inspired to write such notable prophecies as "whenever it is that they are saying peace and security."
excellent point....when did the apostles claim to be prophets?
Apparently not all apostles were prophets, but some were. And many who were not apostles were prophets in association with the apostles. Acts 15:30 says of Judas and Silas that "they themselves were ALSO PROPHETS." That is in addition to Paul and Silas and the other older men and apostles who settled the circumcison issue. Furthermore, Ephesians 3:5 says: "I t has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by spirit." Also, the angel told John: [b] Be careful...All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who are prophets..."
yk, you always speak of how "apostates" twist scripture to fit their arguments, and how "apostates" are deceptive BLAH BLAH BLAH. you dodge whatever you cannot answer, and you deceptively twist scripture to make it say what you need it to. BLAH BLAH.
Let's face it Dubula, like many of your brethern, you are full of noxious gaseous vapor. / You Know
JT

3rdson
says:
So here we go again. YK has been around for half a decade now with his prophet's (false) hat on and still making excuses. Did he ever pay-up for the wager he lost in October?
---------
so true it is like watching wt all over again
year in and year out they shout ROUND THE CORNER- then we turn the corner and they shout ROUND THE CORNER SOON
WT has been around the corner so many times we are back to where we started and that is:
They are no more correct on matters than anyone else who merely gave thier opinions- only difference is WT DIDN'T SAY IT WAS THIER OPINION BUT THE WAS THE WORD OF GOD
as has been pointed out they even call is "Spiritual Food from Jah"
yea right
NeonMadman

MY BROTHER MY BROTHER
You are not playing today
i loved your post - don't worry about guys like YK they are not our concern- in fact my concern is not so much for current jw - it takes too much time showing them proof over and over and over before they will even read it it- but NONJW now that is where the "MONEY" is
Thanks for the kind words, JT, that's exactly why I post here. I don't argue with guys like YK for their own sake. He's an arrogant fool blinded by the Watchtower's lies and his own overwhelming pride. But I refute the things he says precisely because I know that there are lots of lurkers here, both JW's and other interested ones, who are far more reasonable than YK, but who might be deceived by his (and the Watchtower's) specious, deceptive reasonings.
Of course, YK thinks he has proven his beliefs regularly and irrefutably on this forum, but those who come here regularly see little other than a schoolyard bully who comes in, throws around a lot of accusations and name-calling, and then disappears when the kitchen gets too hot (pardon the mixed metaphor). YK's typical pattern is to argue for a while on a topic, full of sound and fury, then disappear from the board for several days when it becomes apparent he doesn't have a leg to stand on. After that, he comes charging back in to make a fool of himself on another topic, and the pattern repeats. If I were lurking here wondering whether I should become a JW, posters like YK would quickly convince me that the Watchtower has nothing to offer. So, to that extent at least, I guess it's a good thing he is here.
Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan
AlanF

In the stereotypical fashion of defenders of Jehovah's Witnesses, You Know twists the Scriptures every which way in order to maintain the fiction that JW leaders have been appointed by God to speak in his name. Here we find yet another attempt by a JW defender to absolve JW leaders from their responsibility for having misled millions of people about issues they themselves declare are matters of life and death.
You Know claims that certain scriptures define what a false prophet is. Several posters have pointed out his errors in using such a narrow and self-serving definition, but in true cowardly fashion he has not answered their arguments because he can't do it without making the JW organization look even more foolish. As these unanswered posters have pointed out, a Biblical "true prophet" is not limited to someone "that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh" and a Biblical "false prophet" is not limited to someone who says the opposite.
According to the Watchtower Society itself, a "prophet" in the most general sense is anyone who claims to speak for God. Since that claim can be true or false, it is obvious that there can be true and false prophets. Clearly then, anyone who says the equivalent of "these words are from God", but whose words prove to be merely their own understanding, is a false prophet. Such a false prophet is quite different from someone who says the equivalent of "here is my interpretation of the Bible and so I think that these words represent God's thoughts". The leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses have declared to the world that they and they alone speak for God to the world of mankind today. Indeed, they teach that in 1919 Jesus appointed them as his exclusive collective spokesman. Thus by their own mouth they stand condemned as false prophets, whenever any of their words spoken in God's name prove false.
We all know of dozens of instances where JW leaders have spoken falsehood in God's name. Lying defenders like You Know would have us believe that these things were not spoken in God's name, but this lie is so transparent that it needs no further comment. Such defenders would also like to narrow down the definition of "false prophet" so as to exclude JW leaders, but again that is not possible, given the Bible's definitions. A very clear description of one sort of false prophet is given in Luke 21:5-8, where the true Christian is told to avoid him:
<< Later, as certain ones were speaking concerning the temple, how it was adorned with fine stones and dedicated things, he said: "As for these things that YOU are beholding, the days will come in which not a stone upon a stone will be left here and not be thrown down." Then they questioned him, saying: "Teacher, when will these things actually be, and what will be the sign when these things are destined to occur?" He said: "Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, 'I am he,' and, 'The due time has approached.' Do not go after them." >>
Jesus was speaking about the time of his parousia (cf. Matthew 24:1-5) or return. He told his disciples to watch out for things that could mislead them. One such thing would be persons who "come on the basis of" Jesus' name, i.e., not necessarily claiming to be Jesus himself (otherwise they could not come on the basis of the name of him who has already come) but claiming to speak in Jesus' name and invoking the spiritual authority that such would confer upon them. Such a claim is the very basis for the claims of authority of the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses. Indeed, their most cherished doctrine is that they and they alone speak in the names of Jehovah and Jesus today.
Another such thing would be persons who claim to speak in God's name and also proclaim falsely that "the due time has approached". The due time for what? Obviously, for the events that the disciples asked about, such as the time of the destruction of the temple and the time when Jesus was to return, i.e, the time of his parousia. The history of the Watchtower organization is littered with false pronouncements that "the due time has approached". Until about 1930 they taught that Christ's parousia had occurred in 1874. Until about 1908 they taught that the battle of Armageddon had begun in 1874, and then until 1914 they taught that it would occur in 1914. After that they taught -- again supposedly with the full backing of God and Christ -- that it would occur in 1925. Later they caused most of the community of Jehovah's Witnesses to believe it would occur in or shortly after 1975. Today they continue to proclaim that "Armageddon is right around the corner".
JW leaders also now falsely teach that Christ's parousia occurred in 1914, and that all sorts of world events prove them right. However, a careful look at the history of this Watchtower teaching proves that almost everything they've taught about it is unscriptural and unhistorical, and even that much of what they have taught has been based on deliberately selective or even falsified information and false arguments. Clearly, anyone who truly speaks in God's name has no need of lies.
Based on the above, are the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses false prophets in the Biblical sense. Obviously, yes.
Another proof is the way JW leaders have treated their brothers who disagree with them on certain doctrines. A person who simply offers his opinion about a biblical interpretation cannot logically declare that someone with a different opinion is wicked simply because their opinions differ. But a person who equates his own opinion with God's opinion can logically do so, since the biblical notion of "wicked" is "anything that goes against God's opinion". The conduct of JW leaders, in instituting the formal arrangement of disfellowshipping and disassociation, proves that they hold that their opinions are equal to God's. They declare that anyone who publicly disagrees with their opinions is also disagreeing with God, and therefore is an apostate. When such persons are Jehovah's Witnesses, JW leaders cause them to be declared wicked by means of being declared disfellowshipped or disassociated, and such persons are then formally shunned by the entire JW community. But here is what Proverbs 17:15 says about such conduct:
<< Anyone pronouncing the wicked one righteous and anyone pronouncing the righteous one wicked-even both of them are something detestable to Jehovah. >>
So we have the Bible itself providing yet another test for a false prophet -- this time in the sense of "false teacher": Anyone who claims to speak in God's name but who pronounces "the righteous one wicked" is "detestable to Jehovah". The Watchtower Society has caused many, many "righteous ones" to be shunned for "apostasy" when their only real "sin" was to publicly disagree with demonstrably false JW teachings.
You Know's intellectual scrabblings to avoid corporate responsibility for false teachings and predictions on the part of JW leaders are as transparent as glass. We know perfectly well that JW leaders have been teaching nothing more than their own dreams and guesses. It is ironic how well Jesus' words about 'out of your own mouth you will be condemned' apply to the excuses of JW apologists like You Know:
"The true prophet of God today will be telling forth what the Bible teaches, and those things that the Bible tells us are soon to come to pass. He will not be sounding forth man-made theories or guesses, either his own or those of others." [W30 5/15 153-5]
"Jehovah, the God of the true prophets, will put all false prophets to shame either by not fulfilling the false prediction of such self-assuming prophets or by having His own prophecies fulfilled in a way opposite to that predicted by the false prophets. False prophets will try to hide their reason for feeling shame by denying who they really are." [Paradise Restored to Mankind by Theocracy, 1972, pp. 353-4]
A much fuller discussion of the topic "JWs as false prophets" can be found in the articles "Notes on False Prophets" and "The WTS and the End of the World" here: http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htm .
AlanF
jayhawk2

You Know,
You remind me of a football metaphor, three yards and a cloud of dust.
Is that all you have to offer?
"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford
Jeremy's Hate Mail Hall Of Fame.
http://hometown.aol.com/onjehovahside/ and [email protected]
biblexaminer

This is the point, and YK should pay attention.
Lot's of people are watching this site. Now, some are thinking minds, and others are dopes.
I for one don't care how many dopes listen to the YK line of reasoning and suck it up like candy. If the whole world joined the 1st church of youknow, and went off into oblivion believing his twisted half Watchtower self styled doctrines, then so be it.
But for the few who have a working mind that can reason, well -they come here and read yk's crap, and then see his nonsense correctly and easily refuted. Then yk is shown to be a "baffoon" (to take from his own post) and yk's bilgewater helps the reasoning mind to have the truth reinforced, by comparing it to his nonsense.
So to yk, I say carry on. Feel free to interject your own prophecys often. Include something about flying saucers. Stand on your head and talk about the three faces of eve, and how your personal carma will save the world. Claim messiaship! Quote from the WTS too. Tie their nonsense in with your own. Mix it up into one big happy batch of idiocy. Help the world see what it looks like when buffalos defecate.
And when a reasonable post goes up, these thinking minds can see the difference between your muck and straight talk.
Watchtower, Watchtower ...built a great wall
They put them selves on it, and then they did fall

IS THE WATCHTOWER A FALSE PROPHET?

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