the problem is Ren , although you say yourself you aren't really fussed about the date setting process the WTS uses , the rank and file Dubs are expected to accept the dates that make the so called troof, if one voices a dissenting voice or doubt that is contrary to current WTS teaching you can be expected to be hauled in front of a kangaroo court on a charge of apostasy , and will have things like sinning against the holy spirit thrown at you, you will be denied any form of help or representation, you wont even be allowed to tape the proceedings, I myself made a similar set of statements, doubting the scriptural validity of the dates 1914(last days, generation) 1935 (cut off date for the anointed) 1919 etc, yet almost 15 years down the line the WTS no longer teaches these doctrine's so I ask my self WHO REALLY ARE THE APOSTATES? THE WTS! surely proof Ren that the WTS is an apostate organization , that promotes lies and false bible doctrine, the WTS says that the father of the lie is the Devil/Satan, it's own publications say this.
PROVE that Jehovah's Witnesses have the "Truth".
by undercover 126 Replies latest jw friends
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Tuesday
Hi Reniaa,
A response to your previous post, context I think is a stupid thing to debate as it really just means "what you say doesn't agree with the way I interpret other scriptures".
"I and the father are one (oops and the holy spirit)"
and the question is.. One what? it doesn't say God even if like most trinitarians you imagine it there.
At John 17:20-23, Jesus prays for his disciples, "that they may all be onejust as as You Father are in me and I in You.... that, they may be one, just as we also are one." I think we can be pretty sure this does not add us to the Trinity and make us "God." Here we can see clearly that Jesus sees this oneness in terms signficantly different than what the Trinitarian would have us believe. The Trinitarian would like to pretend that Jesus was here praying for a oneness that is different than the oneness he declared at John 10:30 despite the fact that Jesus here twice says, "JUST AS WE ARE ONE."
I firmly believe this is a passage showing oneness of purpose and unity works showing that unity.
Ah, but according to what context. This is simply the way you interpret this scripture, while others would interpret it completely differently. You make it seem like you can't firmly believe something and be firmly duped. You also (possibly conviniently) forgot to bring in the verse right before hand that says "I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word" which means when he's talking about unity of him and the Father and the disciples and Jesus he's talking about in their word which would mean in what they're teaching. So it's a completely different situation than what happened in John 10:30 where Jesus is DIRECTLY addressing the pharasees regarding saying he is the Christ. He tells them the gift The Father gave him, that they would not believe what he tells them because they are not his followers and finishes up with his strongest statement "I and The Father am One."
To me I don't see what it matters as no matter how many scriptures you quote I'll have several to refute it, no matter how many scriptures I have you'll have some more to refute it and either of us could be right and either of us could be wrong. You even put in your response that you believe, not that you KNOW.
As for other denominations, christeldelphians do not teach a real satan he is seen by them as some sort of nature we battle :sthey also tithe and celebrate certain Jewish festivals I think they may also keep the sabbath.
So what have you seen the Devil? You have proof he exists? Let me guess you're going to say that the bible refers to him as a person so that makes him exist. As if the bible never speaks in metaphor, I'm supposing the Old Man and Lazarus both exist, next the Prodigal Son must actually exist.
While bible students have good basic russel teachings they have no growth within their church.
Again we come back to growth in the church? Remember I said earlier that if growth is really proof of being the right religion then Islam, Mormonism, Catholicism, Protestantism, etc. must all be more favored than Jehovah's Witnesses.
Of course you're going to say "in THOSE cases it doesn't show divine approval, but in JWs case it does." What about the scripture "cramped is the road and narrow is the path that leads to everlasting life." You also just posted a scripture on the Mormons vs JWs thread that said few would be the ones finding the truth. So you're contradicting yourself, which is it? If the JWs are growing more than the Associated Bible Students according to the scriptures saying the true religion would be small the Associated Bible Students must be right.
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The Almighty Homer
There are as many interpretations of the bible as there are organized religions, each one saying they have spiritual guidance from up above
in their interpretation and reading of the bible. Interesting that they all have different interpretations and yet accuse one another of apostasy.
The JWS may have come up with a couple of things that the leading religions have missed on , but the majority of their doctrines are false.
Probably due to their continuing push for literature sales, a hidden commercializing agenda that unfortunately to some is not apparent.
The past and present editors of the WTS. are under pressure and responsibility created by the organization itself to grab the publics attention,
with that then acknowledged one should realize then what the WTS. says might not actually be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
So help me god !
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Spike Tassel
to passwordprotected: the term "Jehovah's Witnesses" come from an application Isaiah 43:10.
to wobble: The subheading Blessings to Mankind in General in the Insight article MEDIATOR gives a balanced presentation:— While Jesus' mediatorship operates solely toward those in the new covenant, he is also God's High Priest and the Seed of Abraham. … There are, thus, others, not of the 144,000 "sealed" ones who also pray to Jehovah God in the name of Christ, putting faith in the merit of this ransom sacrifice.
It may also be said that the spiritual light in 2009, from which we can see light, is even brighter than the light of 1988, when the Insight volumes were copyrighted.
Jehovah delivers the whole congregation by means of Jesus Christ. By extension, this congregation includes the Bible studies and return visits and preaching work accomplished by JWs worldwide. Even the disfellowshipped are delivered as they are reinstated and accepted, by their acknowledgement of Christ's sacrifice on their behalf, and putting Jehovah's issues above their own, even as Jesus Christ had to do also, thus he desired that Jehovah's Will take place, in preference to even Christ's own will.
to jookbeard: Unity and healthful teaching are required by the Holy Writ, not just by JWs. A rebellious spirit is NOT a spirit of holiness, yet we all MUST become holy as Jehovah is holy.
to The Almighty Homer: "false" is a double-edged sword. The golden rule is quite handy here.
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isaacaustin
misapplication by you (or the Wt and regurgitated by you Spike).
Is 43 is simply an illustraitve court case, that is all. Why does the Wt choose to apply this, out of all the OT reference to Israel to themselves? Read ACts and you will see what name followers of Christ should carry. Then again, you do not follow Christ, so the term Christian would not apply to JWs.
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Spike Tassel
Since Jesus Christ follows Jehovah as Jehovah's foremost Witness, all are wise to join in that loyalist stand, or rejoin as the case may be.
We each prove that Jehovah's Witnesses have the "Truth" by living out the Bible's applications, to the glory of Jehovah God, our Universal Sovereign.
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isaacaustin
Jesus reavealed to us the person of whom God is that we are to be witnesses, and it certainly is not the relgion known as Jehovah's Witnesses. So wrong again spike.
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Tuesday
We each prove that Jehovah's Witnesses have the "Truth" by living out the Bible's applications, to the glory of Jehovah God, our Universal Sovereign.
OK do you have proof of this? Any data, specifically what JWs are following more than other christians with numbers of some sort?
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Spike Tassel
You, Tuesday, can be living proof, as can I.
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Tuesday
You, Tuesday, can be living proof, as can I.
And thousands of other christians can be proof that people other than Jehovah's Witnesses can live out the Bible's applications. Again I come back to So F'N What? What I do have statistics on is percentage of religiosity amongst prisoners and wouldn't you know it, it's exactly correlative to percentage of population. Well except Atheist, it's not even half of the percentage of those who are Atheist.
But nice way to avoid saying you have no stats and figures and are talking out of your ass.