I need some good sriptures & reasoning to refute Jesus = Michael Archangel (page 7)

Deputy Dog

Back to the topic of what came down from heaven...Let's say a JW told youthe life force of Michael the archangel was transferred to the womb of Mary. This is what came down from heaven, it does not retain the characteristics of Michael the archangel, it is simply the life force, or spirit. Just as electircity is not nothing, but it does not retain the characterisitcs of what it makes run, the same with the life force that was transferred.
How would you respond to that?

Isaac This is what always happens. They are missing the point. Don't let them off the hook. Jesus said "HE came down". He's something isn't he? I woud also respond by saying; electricity is something, it's called energy. They can call it anything they want to call it. What ever came down (be it energy, buble gum, or peanut butter) has to be left over from an angel, making Jesus (that) part angel and part human.

isaacaustin

This PM of mine was posted with my permission :)

Deputy Dog

Thanks Isaac

I would also make the point about the uniqueness and importance of what ever this thing is that came down. If you don't eat of this thing (what ever it is) you won't live for time indefinite.

PSacramento

The whole Jesus is/was/is Michael thing was one of the issues that made me research the JW's doctrines, along with the silly 1914 thing too.

While I can understand hwo someone can interpret certain passages as "meaning" that Jesus and Michael are one in the same, IF they come in with that view already, it is nowhere stated in scripture that Jesus was an angel, much less a specific one.

Daniel clearly states that Michael is ONE of the chief pinces ( if you wanna read that as archangel, that's fine), obviously in reference to the Book of Enoch and the 7 archangels there sated.

Jesus is unique, he is the Word, the only true Son of God in the correct use of the term ( we are all sons of God, he is the one begotten Son and all of us were created through Him).

Paul says we will be judges of angels, does that mean we will Judge Jesus ??

Jesus being Michael is more full of holes than a mexican condom !

Deputy Dog

PS

Jesus being Michael is more full of holes than a mexican condom !

LOL I agree with you.

I think it's funny watching them squirm over His dual nature, even if they have it wrong.

Spike Tassel

I've noticed a few dead links on this Topic, which I've livened here, for those interested:—

glenster's Post 325 (on page 1) referred to http://gtw6437.tripod.com/, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQTqKcojrVY

QuestForThruth's Post 4 (on page 3) referred to http://members.cox.net/thomasahobbs/yea_11-2.htm

QuestForThruth's Post 8 (on page 3) referred to http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3209

QuestForThruth's Post 15 (on page 3) referred to http://www.downundertruenameministries.com/YAHSHUA_OUR_MESSIAH_YAHWEH.pdf

Deputy Dog (Post 2600) I would also make the point about the uniqueness and importance of what ever this thing is that came down. If you don't eat of this thing (what ever it is) you won't live for time indefinite.

Spike Tassel: this thing is the "bread from heaven"?

Tuesday

First off, do you know alot about the bible. If you don't then don't get into it. This is something that if you discuss with a Jehovah's Witness and you don't know your bible inside and out you're going to get annihilated. This is the kind of scriptural discussions JWs excel at, where it's a bunch of scriptures jumping all over the bible to prove minor things making false correlations.

If you don't feel like memorizing everything simply ask them. "Can you show me a scripture in which Jesus says flat out that he's Michael the Archangel?" They will say no, but then tell you they have scriptures in which Jesus and Michael are described as doing the same things. Ask them to show you, they will. When they finish tell them "Those are certainly strong coincidences, but there are alot of instances where people are described the same way and doing the same things in the bible." They will say something along the lines of "That isn't true" or "That may be the case for minor things, but not such strong correlations as this." To which you bait here with "I could show you Jesus and Jehovah described the same way in many different instances." If I were in your situation I would write down about 10 different instances where Jesus and Jehovah are described the same way, finish by saying. "Not only that, but if you look at John 10:30 Jesus directly says 'I and the father am one' so if I'm not supposed to believe that Jesus and Jehovah are the same person even though there's more correlative evidence of them being the same PLUS Jesus says it directly, why would I believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel with MUCH less correlative evidence AND Jesus never said it?"

It's a little bit of work, but it doesn't lead into bible ping-pong. They've already shown their piece, admitted it was correlative evidence. They may try to show you where it says Jesus isn't Jehovah, but simply bring it back to "I'm not saying he is Jehovah, I'm simply showing that there is as much correlative evidence for Jesus being Jehovah as there is for Jesus being Michael, if I'm not to believe one, why would I believe the other. Because you decided one set of correlative evidence is valid and the other one isn't. Remember the scripture do not go beyond what is written." That should hopefully end it and show that they're just selecting the scriptures they want to apply and ignorning a plethora of other scriptures.

reniaa

This thread is making the same mistake of saying angels are separate to God and Jesus in race but angels are spirit, like God and Jesus are spirit.

there is no difference to Spirit person Jesus coming to earth, than spirit person Jesus that uses the name michael among other names.

that he is also head of the messengers = Archangel is irrelevent, they are spirit beings too.

Reniaa

isaacaustin

Reread heb 1 and 2 reniaa....maybe it'll click.

Tuesday

there is no difference to Spirit person Jesus coming to earth, than spirit person Jesus that uses the name michael among other names.

Or a spirit person Jesus coming to earth and a spirit person Jesus that uses the name Jehovah among other names.

I need some good sriptures & reasoning to refute Jesus = Michael Archangel

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