It really doesn't matter what they say came down. If Jesus was Micheal, then what ever they say, is part of an angel. If it's nothing then Jesus was lieing.
I need some good sriptures & reasoning to refute Jesus = Michael Archangel
by androb31 236 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
androb31
When I was a JW I understood it as Michael existed in heaven as God's first creation. When the time came for him to become Jesus, God basically uncreated Michael and transferred his life force into Mary and caused her to give birth to Jesus, the Man.
Jesus did not have his pre-human memories as Michael until he was baptized. Then he became the messiah when he received the Holy Spirit and remembered who he was.
Then when he died, he really died. Life force and all.
Then God resurrected (re-created) the life force and person of Michael, as a spirit person but without a body.
Jesus is now back to being Michael in the heavens but still known as the man Jesus only based on what he did 2000 years ago on earth???? That's easy enough to understand, right???
-
Deputy Dog
androb31
God basically uncreated Michael and transferred his life force into Mary and caused her to give birth to Jesus, the Man.
That's not an answer to my question.
If Michael ceased to exist, isn't that how JWs define death?
Why did God kill Michael?
I thought the wages of sin is death. Did Michael sin?
If a "life force" needs transferring, it must be something, some part of an angel. If it's not something then nothing came down and Jesus Lied
-
androb31
"androb31
God basically uncreated Michael and transferred his life force into Mary and caused her to give birth to Jesus, the Man.
That's not an answer to my question.
Why did God kill Michael?
I thought the wages of sin is death. Did Michael sin?
If a "life force" needs transferring, it must be something, some part of an angel. If it's not something then nothing came down and Jesus Lied"
I wasn't exactly trying to answer your question. I was merely explaining what I understood as a JW. I'm no longer a JW nor do I subscribe to their teachings. That's a good question to stump a current JW with.
-
Deputy Dog
I wasn't exactly trying to answer your question. I was merely explaining what I understood as a JW. I'm no longer a JW nor do I subscribe to their teachings. That's a good question to stump a current JW with.
I understand. I thought you were just playing the part, like isaac was.
-
androb31
"I understand. I thought you were just playing the part, like isaac was."
Oh gotcha, my bad.
"Why did God kill Michael?
I thought the wages of sin is death. Did Michael sin?"
That is a good point. I guess if God were to uncreate Michael it would be like killing him. Especially if he didn't remember who he was til he got baptized as Jesus he would've been as good as dead for 30 years. Never thought about it like that but I guess that would put a JW in a pickle.
-
Chalam
When I was a JW I understood it as Michael existed in heaven as God's first creation. When the time came for him to become Jesus, God basically uncreated Michael and transferred his life force into Mary and caused her to give birth to Jesus, the Man.
Jesus did not have his pre-human memories as Michael until he was baptized. Then he became the messiah when he received the Holy Spirit and remembered who he was.
Then when he died, he really died. Life force and all.
Then God resurrected (re-created) the life force and person of Michael, as a spirit person but without a body.
Jesus is now back to being Michael in the heavens but still known as the man Jesus only based on what he did 2000 years ago on earth???? That's easy enough to understand, right???
Wow, it is worse than I thought! It looks like the actual idea is to minimise the "life" of Jesus, the WT want to keep it to about 30 years, not eternity because that would make Him God.
Of course there is not a single piece of scripture that actually supports any of their myth but plenty which refutes it.
Well keep us posted how your friend gets on.
All the best,
Stephen
-
designs
JW theology is not that complicated, simple really, but somehow you guys even messed that up.
-
kurtbethel
JW theology is not that complicated, simple really, but somehow you guys even messed that up.
The publications provided by the slave are so incomprehensible when compared to the Bible, they do a fair job of messing it up without any outside help.
-
sacolton
When did Jesus return to being Michael?
While Christians all over the world celebrate the fact that Jesus Christ has risen from the dead and is alive forevermore, the Watchtower Society teaches Jehovah’s Witnesses that the man, Jesus Christ is dead, forever. This belief began early in the Watchtower’s history as Charles Russell, the first president of the Society, wrote in Studies in the Scriptures, vol.5, 1899, p.454, “....the man Jesus is dead, forever dead....”.
In particular, the Watchtower teaches that before the man Jesus existed here on earth, Michael the Archangel was the Son of God in heaven. In order to redeem mankind from their sins, it was necessary for Michael to will himself out of existence, or annihilate himself, then Jehovah could transfer his life force to the womb of the Virgin Mary. The person who was born on earth, as a result of this, was a brand new creation- the man, Jesus. The Society further teaches that after the man, Jesus, died and was buried, his body was annihilated by Jehovah God. Then Jehovah re-created Michael the Archangel, and it was, in fact, Michael who rose from the dead as an invisible spirit creature, not the man, Jesus.
This teaching brings up 4 questions and concerns.
1) Where in the bible does it state that an angel, or anyone, can will themselves out of existence, thus annihilating themselves and ceasing to exist? Also, wouldn’t Michael be guilty of suicide which is a serious sin?
2) If the Watchtower is correct, and it was Michael who rose from the dead and later ascended into heaven, why do the New Testament inspired writers continually refer to the risen Lord, hundreds of times, as Jesus, instead of Michael? 1 Timothy 2:5 even states that the Mediator between God and mankind is the man, Christ Jesus. This is in direct contrast to the Watchtower’s teaching that the man, Jesus, is dead. In order to be in harmony with the Society’s belief, 1 Timothy 2:5 should read that the Mediator between God and man is the spirit, Michael the Archangel.
3) If the man, Jesus, is dead, as the Watchtower teaches, how can the re-created Michael be a compassionate and merciful high priest since he cannot personally relate to our sufferings? The book of Hebrews, chapter 4, says that Jesus is a sympathetic high priest who can relate to our weaknesses since He was tempted, on earth, in every way that we are. But how can Michael, allegedly now reigning in heaven, have any empathy toward us since he did not personally undergo trials here on earth like the rest of mankind?
4) Finally, if the man, Jesus, ceased to exist at His death, as taught by the Society, we have to wonder if Michael had a case of mistaken identity. Luke 24 tells us that when Michael appeared to the apostles after his re-creation, they thought that he was a spirit being. But he promptly corrected them regarding this by manifesting convincing proofs that he was really the man, Jesus, whose dead physical body was resurrected from the tomb. He said, “See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have” (Luke 24:39). So, Michael was either confused about his identity and thought that he was the risen man, Jesus, or, worse yet, he deceived the apostles into believing that they were witnessing Jesus in a resurrected physical body.
In conclusion, the man, Jesus, is not dead. He rose from the grave in a tangible, physical body of flesh 3 days after his death. Jesus Himself has the strongest testimony regarding this. He said, “Destroy this temple and I will raise it in 3 days”. And in case there be any confusion, the gospel writer adds that, “He was speaking about the temple of His body” (John 2:19-21). Yes, Jesus is alive and it is Him, not Michael, who is seated at the right hand of the Father, ready and willing to give eternal life to all those who repent of false teaching and put faith in Him.