Name Things JWs Believe That Are Not Actually Biblically Provable

by minimus 231 Replies latest jw friends

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  Chalam

  Hi designs,

  It really is about converting people to a specific set of doctrinal interpretations. It is not just belief in Jesus as the Savior of humanity but the Jesus of the Trinity and the belief in Hell and forms of predestination. Calvinism 101.

  Well John Calvin had a lot of things right IMHO. You cannot get away from predestination, it is on pretty much every page. Also, it is mentioned in name by Paul in at least two chapters. Unless you are one of the few who thinks Paul was a heretic?!

  Many doctrinal points are not spelled out in the bible. That is why there is theology, to help understand it. The JWs have theirs and born again Christians have ours.

  Getting people out of one tough situation only to get them into a worse one is being no friend.

  I assume you mean being a born again Christian is worse than a JW?!

  So what are your beliefs?

  All the best,
  Stephen
• 

  insearchoftruth

  bttt - too good of a thread not to move back up!
• 

  reniaa

  hi civics

  1 Samuel 28:8-15 (New American Standard Bible)

  8 Then Saul (A) disguised himself by putting on other clothes, and went, he and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, " (B) Conjure up for me, please, and (C) bring up for me whom I shall name to you."

  9 But the woman said to him, "Behold, you know (D) what Saul has done, how he has cut off those who are mediums and spiritists from the land. Why are you then laying a snare for my life to bring about my death?"

  10 Saul vowed to her by the LORD, saying, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing."

  11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me."

  12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul."

  13 The king said to her, "Do not be afraid; but what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a divine being coming up out of the earth."

  14 He said to her, "What is his form?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and (E) he is wrapped with a robe " And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and (F) he bowed with his face to the ground and did homage.

  15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are waging war against me, and (G) God has departed from me and (H) no longer answers me, either through prophets or by dreams; therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do."

  lets look at the samuel passage which actually disproves immortality of soul.

  First the 'divine being' nwt says 'God' others says spirit was raised out of the EARTH absolutely not heaven, he is an old man in clothes this speaks again of body resurrection rather than soul, and to cap it all he asks why he has been disturbed and again BROUGHT UP, this shows he was earthly dead as jews believed and from the earth. nope no soul confirmation here quite the contrary.

  Reniaa
• 

  insearchoftruth

  Does the WTS believe in a bodily resurrection of Christ......?
• 

  reniaa

  hi chalam

  your reasonings contradict the scriptures you quote.

  Corinthians 13:8-12 (New International Version)

  8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

  I'm pretty sure when Jws talk of perfection coming it is when Jesus restores it. now putting a date on current bible prophecy isn't prophecy but this scriptures allows prophecy in part which in my opinion is probably in relation to dealing with intepreting bible prophecies due to happen that are written so we know when they do come to fulfillment.

  but whatever it mean this scripture shows the main gifts dispear which history itself testifies too but that knowing in part and prophecying in part do remain whatever we think on that.

  Reniaa
• 

  reniaa

  hi insearch of truth

  Jws believe in resurrection but in spirit formbut not in body

  1 Peter 3:18 (New American Standard Bible)

  18 For ( A ) Christ also died for sins ( B ) once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might ( C ) bring us to God, having been put to death ( D ) in the flesh, but made alive ( E ) in the spirit;

  note here it says dead in flesh but made alive in spirit

  some bible translation try to fluff this scripture by say 'by the spirit but....

  In the Greek text the words "flesh" and "spirit" are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator uses the rendering "by the spirit" he should also consistently say "by the flesh" or if he uses "in the flesh" he should also say "in the spirit".

  Also at 1 Corinthians 15:45 it says: "It is written: 'The first man Adam became a living soul.'The last Adam (Jesus Christ, who was perfect as Adam was when created) became a life giving spirit."
• 

  designs

  Chalam,

  I would describe you as Fundamentalist, especially since you agree with John Calvin and his TULIP criteria and by the texts you have isolated.

  The main problem with Fundamentalism is their conduct, something is seriously wrong with the views they hold and how it translates itself in their lives. John Calvin murdered Servetus. Violence and war are at their historical core. Jesus said by their fruits you would know his followers.

  In professional dealings with people who claim to be 'born again' and Fundamentalists they have proven to be the most corrupt and dishonest group I have ever dealt with. Why are they like that, I don't know, its probably for a sociologist to analyze.

  In my own Faith I am deconstructing and rebuilding many things. I believe the historical Jesus of the Gospels and his Resurrection and that he cares for humanity, not just some 'Elect' as Calvin imagined, I beleive he will restore all things as promised.

  I believe we are here to care for each other and this earth, to be humanitarians and environmentalists.

  Take care

  designs
• 

  insearchoftruth

  Thanks Reniaa,

  Just a few more questions/comments

  became a life giving spirit."

  Doesn't this happen at the ascension, when the JWs believe the earthly Jesus is risen to heaven to become the heavenly Michael......

  How can one stick their fingers in the nail holes of a spirit, how can a spirit eat.......I am not a bible expert, but doesn't Jesus specifically state he was bodily resurrected????

  This is one thing I really wonder about with the WTS, why commemorate the death of a man, when what made this man so significant was his conquering death for ALL WHO BELIEVE IN HIM.

  I am the resurrection and the life.....if you believe then you shall live.

  Another question, why are the remnant partaking of the elements if the WTS truly believes that Christ has returned in 1914. Doesn't the bible state to do this until he returns?
• 

  PSacramento

  Jesus was ressurected in bodily form, inhis own words "Flesh and Bone".

  That he ascended in spirit form can be viewed as logical for, in him are all the qualities of God.
• 

  isaacaustin

  hi insearch of truth

  Jws believe in resurrection but in spirit formbut not in body

  1 Peter 3:18 (New American Standard Bible)

  18 For ( A ) Christ also died for sins ( B ) once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might ( C ) bring us to God, having been put to death ( D ) in the flesh, but made alive ( E ) in the spirit;

  My reply: In the spirit- by the power of the Holy Spirit. In Revelation John was in the Spirit when he saw visions. Was he disembodied or was he a man seeing vision by the power of the Holy Spirit.

  note here it says dead in flesh but made alive in spirit

  My reply: In the spirit- by the power of the Holy Spirit. In Revelation John was in the Spirit when he saw visions. Was he disembodied or was he a man seeing vision by the power of the Holy Spirit

  some bible translation try to fluff this scripture by say 'by the spirit but....

  In the Greek text the words "flesh" and "spirit" are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator uses the rendering "by the spirit" he should also consistently say "by the flesh" or if he uses "in the flesh" he should also say "in the spirit".

  Also at 1 Corinthians 15:45 it says: "It is written: 'The first man Adam became a living soul.'The last Adam (Jesus Christ, who was perfect as Adam was when created) became a life giving spirit."

  My reply: When did Adam become a living soul? When did Jesus become a life-giving spirit?