Since you on the right won't answer this question. Abortion

by dawg 148 Replies latest jw friends

  • momzcrazy

    Sorry, those were legally aborted fetuses, before 5 months gestation.

    These are embryos, 7 weeks gestation:

  • dawg

    Well St Anne... you're a great lady with a kind heart, thank goodness for you. I can't imagine anyone being forced to have a child with Tye Sachs by rule of law...but I guess we differ....

    Good luck in your struggles in this life, I hope all goes well for you and yours.,.,. you're all cool by me... I think we've just about exhausted our views, I've left with the understanding that you are a good person that I simply disagree with about a certain subject; I hope you feel the same..

    As you may have noted, I do not insult those I disagree with until they say some smart ass remark, you have refrained from doing anything other then presenting your views, I didn't jump for those reasons.

    I feel you did a good job saying what you felt, and feel as if I've learned something from you... good day my sister... Huff

  • MegaDude
  • JWdaughter

    Hi, whatever you want to do with life after it begins, the fact is-there is a beginning of of life-at conception. I am not saying it dogmatically, just biologically. Is there any OTHER time that you think would be more appropriate? When babies are born have no relation to when life begins. Any woman who has a miscarriage can tell you there is a difference from when her baby is alive and when it dies. A living organism and a dead or inert one are clearly distinguishable.

    When is life valuable or worthy of continuing on? Then one needs to address other subjects-like eugenics and euthanasia.

  • JWdaughter

    Hey, proportionately, newborn babies and toddlers don't resemble an adult human being much. Children who are born(or become) deformed don't look 'normal' either sometimes. Newborn babies require assistance to survive. Their lives are not sustainable without assistance. Neither are many disabled people able to live w/o help. At certain points in my adult life, I had doctors making sure I breathed during surgery. Was I disposable then because I needed help to breathe?

  • BlackSwan of Memphis
    BlackSwan of Memphis

    Not on the right.

    I had the opportunity to speak with a number of women who have taken the abortion option.

    Most, if not all of them, never believed in a million years they would be doing this.
    Nearly every single one chose this due to failed contraception.
    Nearly every single one were in stable relationships, often married.
    Most had given this option prayerful consideration and truly believed in God and believed that this choice was between them and God alone.

    I would love to hear what people who are pro life would do with a mother of 3 who has chosen abortion.
    Would they throw her in prison with hard core criminals for life?

    Were they in the bedroom or dark night when the life was conceived?


    I tend to think that the pro lifers out there think that all the women out there who make a decision such as this are just sluts who get knocked up and don't give a damn about the life inside them. Couldn't be further from the truth.

  • StAnn
    I would love to hear what people who are pro life would do with a mother of 3 who has chosen abortion.

    BSOM -

    Love them.

    A dear friend of mine, a mother of three girls, had divorced and then found out she was pregnant and aborted. Her husband was a terribly abusive alcholic. She's still one of my best friends. I love her anyway.

    And if she had needed post-abortion counseling, we'd have helped her get it.

    What we try to do is help to support the women who get pregnant. We feel that, if you encourage someone to keep their baby, you are obligated to help them support themselves and their babies, even after the baby is born. There are entire movements and organizations that do just that.

    One of the big things we do is try to address the situations that cause women to choose to abort. If it's poverty, that needs to be addressed. If it's because they're alone and overwhelmed, that needs to be addressed. If it's because the child is going to be born with a disability and the mother feels helpless, that needs to be addressed.

    Being pro-life isn't a simple, sound-byte, bumper sticker position. You have to be willing to put your money where your mouth is.


  • Midget-Sasquatch
    Two things I've learned, most of you tie abortion into your religious beliefs...
    and you guys know better than zygotes being human... your religions are blinding your judgments in my mind.

    As Bugs Bunny would say: "He don't know me very well, do he?"

    Read enough of my posting history and most people would say I'm agnostic, even atheistic in day to day practice. Its not religious ideas that shape my opinion but understanding of the continuity of the developmental process. You've seen slides of zygotes. So have I. Now if you rationally want to say its not a person right then and now, I can see that. You won't call it "murder" because if I understand you, "murder" only applies to people. Fine.

    I though agree with JWDaughter that the zygote is still indisputably a human life. And while you set the line at personhood (I can see that) I personally, think that a bit more time is all thats needed to have a person. I don't take the killing of human life lightly..ergo my positions on fetuses, enbryos and yes even zygotes.

    Midget-If you feel that way then you condone murder don't you? Its obvious you don't see zygotes as human if you're willing to kill them just because you know they're going to die... you don't go into a room with terminal patients and machine gun them just to stop their suffering do you?

    I would say I condone killing depending on the circumstances. I'm not going to play games with words but try to convey how I make distinctions between acceptable killing and unacceptable: Murder lets say. I think I've been upfront and honest about all of this. I wouldn't think twice about killing some psychopath to save other lives. I'm definitely not a social darwinist, but it a terminally ill person wanted to die, pleaded for my help and I were the only person about I think it mercy rather than "murder" to help them out. So long story short: its not a black and white world for me dawg...situational ethics isn't easy for me and I have to rethink my position with all kinds of different scenarios.

    I would say its manslaughter if they end pregnancies at that stage, border lining on murder and would have no problem ruling from any bench and enforcing that view. Except in cases where the mother's life in in danger, or when a embryo is known to carry genetic traits they are sure to die from; hard choices must be made in these events and the state has no right to but their heads into these cases.

    I think our positions are closer than what we may have originally thought.

    I find it inconceivable that anyone thinks the killing if you will of a group of cells no bigger than a pin head "murder" as some have described here on this site. I know that its their religions that make them take this stand, as no rational human would consider the slides I've seen of zygotes in any way "human"...

    Thats where we'll disagree. Again you're going by personhood which I think is a practical and reasonable dividing line in one way. Especially if you're going to enforce laws on it. I think it would be fairer to the developing human lifeform to give it at least a chance. Peace.

  • jgnat

    No pictures. Enough.

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