Why do I feel like I'm losing my wife to this website?

by sarabi 104 Replies latest jw friends

  • restrangled

    Dear Sarabi,

    I haven't read all posts but want to tell you I really appreciate Cognac's input on any subject. Not all here are rabid anti JW's. Most are looking for some kind of healing after ugly behavior from the WBTS.

    Most are not looking to convert anyone......its a support site, like anything else you have to pick and choose.

    It's a place to vent feelings, doubts, ideas, etc.....which you should well know is NOT allowed within the framework of the JW's.

    Allow your wife, to be who she is, and yourself too! No need to panic about this site.....No one is out to convert anyone.....its about freedom of information and each can make up their own mind.

    Take care,


  • free2beme

    When I was in the religion, I would have agreed with you. Now though and I am not disfellowshipped and used to be a Pioneer Ministerial Servant, I see things different. You might say it is Satan blinding my eyes, which is what the Witnesses say or you can ask yourself, "If my religion is so right, why are there so many points and evidence to it be wrong and even hypocritical?"

    While the reasons for my exit, were directly related to seeing how much the Witnesses were guessing and underhanded with their change in the generations teaching. I, like many others, also noticed certain things about them that did not coincide with the Bible. Things like the illustration of the "Good Samaritan," I wondered so many times why we never did anything valid to help others. We would say, "We help them by sharing God's word and promise." Honestly, in a messed up world with people starving or needing help, is that really enough after 120 years? I honestly hated making announcements from the stage that went something like this "The major earthquake in this city back east was terrible, thousands died, and many are homeless ... but the society is taking care of our brothers and sisters." Why not the rest, where was the love and wasn't this an exact example of what Jesus said God would find appalling? It was, people need subsidence and help, not a magazine, book or brochure of some possible hope.

    I also wondered, what was up with all the time counting? I would fill out those reports and think to myself, is this for bragging rights or really God's service? When I would see the tallies printed all over, I was answered "Bragging rights!" What business was it of the organization to know how often I was moved to preach, that is personal and comes about when the spirit moved you ... at least so we were told in words. The success of the Jehovah Witness preaching campaign ended decades ago, now it is more like punching the religious time clock and nothing much comes of it. Even recent studies mentioned in main stream media has shown that the Witnesses are loosing all both 30% of those raised in the religion, guess the preaching work is not even helping them.

    Questions, with only Watchtower answers, is not research it is control. To find answers you seek out the real TRUTH and make it your own. Maybe it is coming to a site like this. It has been said that to get a true measure of society, you do not look to the success stories of those who have acheived amazing acts of success. You instead go to the Prisons and see what failed these people from reaching even a minimal amount of success. That is where you see the weakness in society and the more people in prison, the more problems in society. So with so many thousands of Witnesses leaving each year and coming to sites like this, you have to ask why? You might say Satan caused the answer, but I think it is the same story of why Eve tried the forbidden fruit. We do not all want to be mindless people who only accept things, because we are suppose too.

    I left the Witness religion over ten years ago, and it was the single most important and best decision I ever made. I was fortunate that my wife felt the same as me and left the religion too. That is not Satan, that is reality and the mind doing what it does best and rationalize and reason. If I can part one thought in to you, it would be this "When God gave the law to the Jews it was perfect and only weakened throughout time." Why then does his modern nation actually go in reverse and supposedly start out 120 years ago a mess and way off, and get more perfect in time? They don't it is called, "fake it til you make it!"

    Argument on religion is futile, answers come at death to all.

  • OnTheWayOut

    First, a hearty welcome to the forum. I have high praise for your willingness to help your
    wife. I know it is very difficult to come here, yourself and state your case. You are a great
    support to your wife. It is obvious that you want to do what is best for her.

    I'm worried that she will become an apostate because of this website.

    The WT Society likes to plant a fear in us with the word, "apostate." We kid around about
    the word, but it actually means "One who abandons their religious faith." Cognac is not
    abandoning a faith. She is examining it. You can go through your WT Library to see that
    it tells everyone that they are responsible to examine whatever faith they are in. That
    includes Jehovah's Witnesses.

    If you want to say anyone who examined the JW doctrines and found fault with them is an
    apostate, then it would be more accurate to say that anyone who became a JW abandoned
    a former faith (be it Atheism or Protestantism or Judaism or etc.) and they would be an
    apostate. That makes anyone in the congregation who was not born as a Witness, an

    So it seems that WT's use of the term is slanted their way. "You must examine your
    religion to make sure you agree with it, but you must not stop agreeing with us." That is
    the thing they are saying. I would ignore the word "apostate" and the associated fear it
    delivers. Cognac is building upon her faith and properly examining beliefs.

    This website is just a tool that makes it easier for people to share what they learn and
    think. It is still the individual who must examine things for themself.

    I understand that you probably don't want to help me. I also understand that you are all anti-JW.

    I want to say that at this website, people are not cruel to JW's. I want to say that, but
    people are people. Some will be cruel. But you will find that most of the folks here want
    to help. Most of the harsh statements are directed at those that make statements without
    backing or without thoughts and just totally close their minds. If you go to a topic about
    atheism, it will be a bit harsh to fundamentalist Christianity, but you start a thread asking
    for serious help and you will find mostly serious help.

    I feel hurt, I feel like she has been talking behind my back and hiding things.

    Is that what this site promotes? I have read that this website accuses the society of being a secret society. Like the society "sweeps things under the rug." But, realistically, peoples mates are hiding behind this website from there own mates. Is that not secrecy?

    I fully understand what you are saying there. But you do know why Cognac hides the website
    activity from you. Every person has every right to examine anything they want to examine in
    their own search for understanding. Nobody should be punished for looking at this website or
    reading books by former members. I know that WT Society would tell my own mother to
    shun me for the rest of my life if I said that I read a book by Ray Franz, a former Governing
    Body member of Jehovah's Witnesses who examined his faith and found it lacking. If it is
    the truth, it and it's leadership should not be afraid of the lies. You will know the truth and
    the truth will set you free. Why would they insist that you hide from the darkness? I don't
    want my mother to shun me for life, so I don't tell her that I come here. Similarly, I don't tell
    my wife because she might tell them, then they will still tell my mother to shun me.

    I think that Cognac has shown incredible trust in you by revealing what she is doing. She
    trusts you enough to recognize that she is accountable, not to a body of elders or a Governing
    Body, but to God for what she reads and who she seeks information from. She trusts that you
    won't just "turn her in" to those that would demand that she stop reading certain information.
    I have a similar trust with my wife, but I choose not to put my research in her face because it
    makes her physically ill because of the fears that WT Society has helped her to have.

    I feel like the faithful slave has our best interests whether they are right or wrong.

    First of all, let me assure you that the vast majority of those who are the "Faithful and Discreet
    Slave" have no say in the final doctrine of the JW's. Only the 12 or so men on the Governing
    Body make those decisions. They say that they are not infallible, but they say a Witness must
    agree with the teachings to stay a Witness. Any disagreement, including your thought that they
    might be wrong, is dealt with harshly. A judicial committee can be formed for anyone who disagrees
    and doesn't recant. One way around that, even for yourself, is to keep quiet. If you just express
    doubt and not direct conclusions that WT doctrines are wrong, they usually don't disfellowship you.

    They do want the members to stay faithful to the doctrine. Even though they do care about the
    members, their concern for the welfare of the organization comes ahead of the individual. They would
    rather keep stories of child-abuse by members out of the news, so they might put the interests of
    the child in second place. The same would be true for Cognac. They want the other members to
    stay faithful to the doctrine, so they might literally put her down and make her seem evil or "apostate"
    to the other members so that they won't listen to her. That means her welfare is at least secondary
    (if not worse) to full agreement among the members. The elders are instructed by the Governing Body
    rules and cannot waiver from them. I know. I was one of them. We used clear rules on how to
    deal with someone who decided not to support the doctrines anymore.

    I want her to understand that she can trust me and that I'll help her to find the answers that she is looking for. Keep on asking and you will find. Keep on knocking and it will be answered to you.

    Cognac has a great supporter in you. If she keeps on asking, why not let her keep asking others
    who have been there or are searching just like her. If you want to keep knocking, why not use the tools
    that are available. The truth does not need to shake in fear from any lies. Cognac will keep searching
    and use other tools if the internet tools were unavailable, but all good scientists recognize that others
    before them have done much research and they don't each start from scratch but examine what the
    other scientists have already discovered. She will have to weigh each bit of information for herself, but
    if everyone started from scratch, then there wouldn't even be a Bible, a Christianity, or a WT Society.

  • inkling


    Two people now have asked about you joining this board way back in 2006.

    Could you address that? It seems important to me. It would seem you were
    curious well before your wife was.


  • Hortensia

    It's hard to read a person, through the internet. You sound sad that your wife is moving away from the WTBTS, investigating other ideas, talking with people you don't know. She's waking up, she's making her choice, her fear is losing you - your fear is losing her. Why not take her hand and go investigate with her. As for protecting her - she isn't a child. She's a grownup and on her own just like all the rest of us, just like you. Wanting to protect her sounds sweet, but it also implies that she doesn't really understand the dangers that you see. Maybe, just maybe, the dangers are all in your head and things are really OK and she sees that and wants you to see it too. Your comments are almost childlike in their perplexity and fear. We're all trying to tell you it will be OK. Don't be a dishonest husband who wants to control and "protect" your wife. Venture out into the real world with her.

  • BizzyBee

    Surely I can't be the only one who smells a rat?

  • Fadeout

    Regarding the propensity to spend time on a message board rather than with people in real life, I suggest this possibility: If your wife were able to discuss the matters that concern her with those close to her to the extent she felt necessary, there would be little need to seek out additional discussion on the internet.

    As baptized Witnesses there are very few persons we can go to as non-judgmental "sounding boards" for our thoughts. That is a basic human need. The Watchtower does not allow for this within the congregation; indeed no Witness is free to speak their mind or voice their concerns within earshot of a loyal Witness for fear of accusations of "apostasy;" actual enmity against God.

    Regarding the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" and their concern for our well-being, only Jesus can pronounce a slave faithful or discreet. It is meaningless for the slave to pronounce himself such. As Jesus himself said, "If I alone bear witness about myself, my witness is not true." (John 5:31)

    As Witnesses we are conditioned to associate the FDS with a particular handful of men in New York, when nothing Biblically supports that self-designation.

    Personally, my initial investigation only two years ago was bolstered by the knowledge that Biblically, every single organization chosen by God turned apostate, and individuals were faced with a choice whether they would be loyal to "God's chosen organization" or to God himself.

    By definition, the Truth has nothing to fear from investigation of the facts.

    Support your wife's search for truth and take the journey together.

  • SnakesInTheTower

    welcome to cognac's husband...

    I am curious that you signed on to this site back in Dec 06 and you just now start posting. You have been a lurker...heh heh..good for you Your wife started here in Jan 08...a year later....ironic.....

    I forget how your wife came across this site. Did she know when she signed on here to JWD that you were already a member, albeit a non-posting one?

    I would not worry about "losing" your wife. Based on her posts, she is scared to lose YOU to a man-made organization.

    Anyone that goes against the Watchtower Society's authority is looked at with suspicion. How do I know this? I served as an elder for 5 years. I served as a regular pioneer off and on for 8-10 years (I lost track...more off than on during those 20 years overall.) More importantly, I know how elders really work compared to how the Society expects them to work. I received very thorough organizational training through the MTS...and my eyes were opened wide ... once you get a peek at the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain (or in this case, the GB and the Society), nothing can ever be the same for a person if they have any kind of a conscience at all. It tainted everything I ever knew about the Society...I was raised from a young age until my late 30s before I woke up to the truth about the "Truth"......It only took me another few years to extract myself from the Society.

    I don't consider myself to be a fire breathing, nasty apostate the way the Society would label me if they knew I was here....ironically I was lurking here while serving as an elder. Ironically while I served on a JC for a brother accused of apostasy...when it was really just a genuine concern for things he seen (ie, the UN scandal)..and he refused to back down. He wanted us to DF him....and we obliged.

    Yet, any JW that is inactive and not attending the meetings regularly technically is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses (because they are not "witnessing" for Jehovah), even if they still believe some JW doctrine, or if they still love "Jehovah"...that does not matter unless you are true blue company man (or woman).

    When you got married to Cognac, you made a vow to Jehovah in your marriage, not an Organization of men. Your loyalty to your wife is loyalty to God (if a person believes in God...for now we will operate under the presumption that there is a god). But that is not how the Organization will view you or her if you give any indication of perceived disloyalty. And if they ever get word that you or she is on this site? All bets are off and you will likely be DF...or at least reproved....she would be DF based on her comments...you might get off lightly based on your limited posts.....if you grovel appropriately...

    ...my comments again are based on my experience on that JC I mentioned and my training.......the PO was monitoring the brothers public blog...and reams of printouts were used as evidence against him....so if you want to stay in the Org....I would suggest being very careful what you say...the fact that you have ID'd yourself as Cognac's husband links you to all of her posts.

    Believe me, I have said enough that several other faders on JWD have identified me.... it is only a matter of time before I am "caught" LOL....

    Please be patient with your wife. Be supportive. And again, welcome to the board.

    SnakesInTheTower (of the "wondering how long before he is busted" Sheep Class)

  • IP_SEC
    Surely I can't be the only one who smells a rat?

    What do you mean? The IP address is the same as cognac's. MrFlipper has spoken with MrCognac?

  • BizzyBee
    Is the society working off an unclean spirit? If so, then why does anybody here have to worry? Jehovah will correct it and make his congregation clean.

    Okay, I'll bite.

    Did it ever occur to you that Jehovah is using us to correct the Society and clean it up?

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