Why do I feel like I'm losing my wife to this website?

by sarabi 104 Replies latest jw friends

  • horrible life
    horrible life

    Welcome Sarabi, Two points that you brought out, that jumped out at me. I think we all come here to express ourselves. I can't even go to my father and express myself. He is an elder, and I am close to being 50 years old. If I were to ask my father questions, or tell him what I have learned about the Witnesses here, he would turn his back on me. If I were to go to any elder, and ask questions, I would be disfellowshipped for apostasy.

    Remember, you talked to the elders before your wife did, to soften what was going to be said. You must have felt a little afraid also. When it was over, did you feel like the elders probably had a meeting about things that were said with Cognac? She now probably has a record, in the elders secret book.

    I feel that this is the main reason my wife comes here, so that she can express herself without feeling judged. I feel the elders are not here to judge us, but are here to help us.

    Second point, Where are you going to help her find the answers? The world is full of information. The Witnesses and their literature do not constitute all that is known on a subject. You have to open your mind to the possibility of the organization hiding information that they don't want you to know.

    As you say, Keep on asking, and you will find. Cognac, is asking and searching. She feels that something is amiss.

    We don't all come here and bash the Witnesses. It is not the people, but the organization.

    I don't understand the need for her to come here anymore. I want her to understand that she can trust me and that I'll help her to find the answers that she is looking for. Keep on asking and you will find. Keep on knocking and it will be answered to you.

    One thing that really touched me profoundly, is: If Jehovah picked the JW's as his mouthpiece, then why have there been so much "New Light". Also, if Russell was so blessed, how could he rely on measurements taken from the pyramids, for predict Biblical prophecy.

    If Jehovah has blessed the congregations so much, why would he allow even 1 child to be molested? If this is Satan doing this, then why haven't the Governing Body changed its policy to turn these predator pedophiles into the police?

    Did Jehovah Goof-up? Is Jehovah changing his mind? If the mortal men in New York were indeed chosen by Jehovah, to be the go between, between Jesus and the other sheep, then why all of the changes?

    The witnesses talk about the other religions, and how they don't have Jehovah's blessing. They are all demonic. We can all look at what is happening to the Mormons in Texas. You and I know, that they are brainwashed, and whacked out. Step back. WAY BACK. Go stand on the biggest hill you can find. Look at the Witnesses from the outside. I think Cognac has. And what she has seen, she is scared of. I know I am. My father is a very educated man. I find it incomprehensible that he is still an elder, and still believes this. But, he has been sheltered, just like all other Witnesses. Sheltered, and not allowed to look for answers elsewhere.

    They have even told you in (I think) the Oct.07 Kingdom ministry, not to assemble and discuss and read the Bible. That can only be don't at the Kingdom Hall, and with approved literature. That in itself is enough for me to stand up, and ask "What is going on??". Jehovah gave me the Bible. I have a brain. I can read it for myself. The Bible does not belong to old men in New York. It belongs to me.

    Please step back. Cognac is knocking. She is knocking very loudly. Open the door!!!!! Research. If it is the TRUTH, it will with stand scrutiny. Jehovah should not mind. Are the words you said about knocking and seeking, aren't they Jehovah's words? What right, do elders, or the men in Brooklyn, have to judge you, asking questions. Yes, they do judge you. There is person after person here, on this forum, who have asked the same questions as Cognac has, and been disfellowshipped.

    She wants answers. You should want the truth also. Please don't be blind, and not look at what she is going through. She is hurting, just as much as you. You are in this together.

  • FlyingHighNow

    Welcome. Your concern for your wife and your marriage is moving. Please understand that if the society did not ban criticism of their organization and shun anyone with sincere questions, people would not need to hide or sneak behind anyone's back. If what you've learned from the WTB& T Society is truth, then it should stand up to scrutiny. Have you considered that the reason they don't want you here is fear that you will find out the falseness of their teachings?

  • pbr


    It sounds as though you are a very kind and caring husband with a thoughtful heart. It is understandable that you would feel somewhat rejected when your wife visits this site. Unfortunately though, not everyone thinks as you do and as a result people have been hurt so very very badly. Let me try to explain: The society have a pyramid structure with those at the top filtering 'truths' down to those that desire to be faithful to Jehovah.

    It is so very easy to trust that they (at the top) have God's blessing, and therefore carry out instruction faithfully. However Jesus taught us to keep checking to see if these things are so, and so we have a duty to 'make sure of all things'. This is where things get very difficult because there is no room for questioning the society. there have been many articles about independent thinking, which seems to go in the opposit direction to what Jesus said we should do.

    So, what do honest hearted ones do? Well, some do as you have suggested, speak with the Elders and are told to correct their thinking, not to question Gods organization or wait on Jehovah. Other's perhaps fear ( does that have a place in god's approved people, whom Jesus said should 'make sure of all things'?) that they will be judged harshly for asking questions, about Silent Lambs for example. So they do personal research.

    Sadly what they uncover is that the society have not mearly made mistakes (we all make them) but more importantly they 'cover them over' often silencing those that would tell the truth.where does one heal from this kind of knowledge that tears at the heart? This site provides a healing balm for a wounded spirit.

    When any religion tells a person how to behave, what information they can view, what to think and what emotions they should have, 'it' ( the religion) begins to control you. especially when this is coupled with manipulation and fear ....for example: articles very often have this reasoning....'honest hearted ones would agree' ....(manipulation), and the fear of loosing your stand with Jehovah,loosing your loved ones through shunning or being brutely killed at Armagedon.

    I suppose what I'm asking is ...does no questioning, manipulation and fear have a place within God's true organization?

    Please don't be too hard on your wife it sounds like she wanted to spare you from the turmoil that comes with knowing the Truth about the 'truth'.Perhaps trying to protect herself too from judgment, and fear of the possible consequenses. Ultimately though, those that come here do so because they are honest hearted ones and do not blindly follow suit. Some are angry, some frustrated, and some are just profoundly sad.

    take good care of each other.


  • Lo-ru-hamah
    People are saying that the faithful slave are false prophets. If that is true, then based upon Mark 3:22-30 with the illustration that Jesus gave us, then this religion will not be able to stand but is coming to an end. Also, in verse 29, whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is guilty of everlasting sin. This because they were saying he has an unclean spirit. Is the society working off an unclean spirit? If so, then why does anybody here have to worry? Jehovah will correct it and make his congregation clean.

    Do you feel that the Catholic Church is full of false prophets? The Catholic Church is the oldest Christian religion in existence, it has more members than any other Christian religion. If you believe that the Catholic Church is a false prophet, why then is it still standing when Mark 3:22-30 illustrates that it should be at an end (hundreds of years ago). Please don't forget that the Catholic Church put together the inspired word of God, the cannon that you now accept as Gods Holy Spirit inspired word, at the council of Nicea. Yet, you don't believe they are the true religion and they prosper. If they were ever inspired, which they would of had to been because they put together the bible that you consider inspired by Gods direction, maybe, Jehovah is trying to make that congregation clean.

    You wife is thinking outside of "Mens" direction. She is following her heart and she is probably scared to death to come to you or the elders and express her doubts and concerns.

    When my husband and I accidentally found out about the Watchtowers association with the UN as a NGO. Mind you, this was not done by looking on the internet. We heard from a fellow witness that this was the case. I doubted it and wanted to prove to the person that it was a lie. We called the UN and they faxed over a letter stating the association was actually true. It then came to the elders attention that we found out about the UN association and they wanted to have a judicial committee meeting with us affirming ourfaith in the Faithful Slave and that we were not apostate. We had to show them the letter from the UN on the UN letterhead to prove that we had gotten the information directly from the UN. When we were completely stumbled by this action and stopped attending the meetings the elders met to disfellowship us. We were not DF'd but we are treated as such whenever we see a witness in town. Gossip has my husband and I as apostates. That is your loving congregation, the one that you want your wife to go to and ask for help.

    Why don't you try and have her meet with the elders and express her doubts and fears and then come on here and tell us that she isn't disfellowshipped or treated as an apostate? Then how will you treat her when she has been labeled as such? Will you treat her with love and understanding? Will you allow her freedom of choice?

    Your wife obviously loves you, show her you love her.


  • sarabi


    What did he do that made you so mad against JWs?

  • loosie
    I want to protect my wife.

    We aren't here to hurt her. only here to allow her to express herself.

  • Confession

    I understand that you probably don't want to help me. I also understand that you are all anti-JW.

    But, I just want to understand why she has changed so much. I don't know whether to think it is because of this website or not.

    Sarabi, I appreciate your coming here and endeavoring to be respectful while asking your questions. I hope those who respond are equally as respectful. "Anti-JW?" Would you call yourself "anti Catholic" or "anti Christendom?" In your mind, does it seem okay to be such--but not okay for anyone to be "anti-JW?" Can't we just say we disagree?

    You should understand the source of this division: almost thirty years ago and before, people could leave the organization with a fair amount of dignity. There was generally no hostility. What changed? The Society decided they would not have it. They would tolerate no disagreement with their teachings; nor would they allow someone to admit that, in the sincerity of his heart, he no longer believed they constituted "God's sole channel" or "The Truth." It was they who decided to create this division.

    It's very difficult for us to communicate, and I understand. I know it's hard to believe this, but you have to work your way through years of organizational manipulation and institutional indoctrination in order even to give yourself permission to conduct an objective investigation into this religion. It's an awful lot to have to go through for the simple right to use your head. One thing that proved to be like a sharp tug to my cerebral cortex was coming to see that the Bible does NOT teach that God has always worked through an organization. If you think about it, it's the foundation for belief in the WTS. You come to accept that there can only be ONE true religion, then they set about trying to prove that they are that religion.

    If you'd like to read a very well researched, kind treatise on this subject, I invite you to read something written by Tom Cabeen, former Watchtower Press Room overseer who, like me and so many others, was stunned to realize "The Truth" wasn't. "Does God Really Work Through an Organization?"

  • BabaYaga

    Sarabi... hello, and a hearty and loving welcome to the forum.

    I don't have anything to add, other than the fact that you and Cognac are very, very fortunate to have one another. You are a good man to listen to her and to communicate these things yourself.

    Much love and strength to the both of you.


  • oompa
    Sarabi: I don't want to take away her freedom of thought. I want to protect my wife. I love her.

    Man Sarabi, with an attitude like that you could quickly become a rock star around here! I love that you have shown enough interest to see why she would feel the need to vent or learn here. I, like your wife, have been very confused about some WT teachings, and they wound up causing me some mental/emotional problems. What is kind of funny about your post above is that as I am sure you know, we are not really allowed freedom of thought as Jehovah's Witnesses.....it is not allowed for the sake of "unity and oneness of thought." So much for free will. Not everyone here hates JW's I want to assure you....I am 4th generaton, and my vast family is very much in...and they are fine people. There is so much I would like to share with you, and I so understand your worry about your wife and your need to protect her.

    One thing you can not and should not feel the need to protect someone from is accurate knowledge. I was very disturbed by a recent KM part that faulted JW's for sudying secularly to see if there were errors in the New World Translation as I had done. I wrote the society about them, and it seems that if they were concerned about accuracy, they would welcome such scrutiny so they could change any errors found. The same article said not to use the internet.....there is vast knowledge on it and much is accurate. The same article said to only use WT study material to find out things by the way....yes it disturbed me greatly. Even my elder/dad has said he has never understood why the society would so discourage ever looking at anything apostate, since our own knowledge and faith should be enough to vanquish it.

    Take good care of Cognac, and please be patient, I nearly drove my JW wife and son nuts when I started to see things differently after 40 plus years in the truth.......................best wishes.........oompa

    I wish my wife would come here...she knows I do

    Oh, and you are not losing your wife to a website, and hopefully not at all....she is just growing, with or without JWD

  • flipper

    Hello SARABI ! Mr. Flipper here ! Welcome to the board ! Nice to hear from you today ! I really enjoyed our conversation the other day - as you are a very polite person and I remember towards the end of our discussion you said, " I really enjoyed talking with you . It's good to share different ideas and thoughts on things. " You stated that you, weren't like some who don't want to listen to other viewpoints . It's how we learn. " And I respect you for that. We did indeed have a good hour and a half discussion ! I'm so sorry you feel you are losing your wife to this website. There are many loving , caring people here who love your wife, have grown fond of her, ( my wife and I included) , and who have her best interests at heart !

    Your wife, Cognac is very well liked because of her honesty, and her ability to express open communication in a caring , sincere fashion here. I'm sure you appreciate her good qualities like that as well. You made the statement in your first post that you have spoken to somebody else ( myself) on this website also DUE TO YOUR INVESTIGATION ". Well , I must say it was really Cognac who requested me to talk with you and invited me to meet you verbally over the phone. Which was a good thing , as your wife was trying to be " out in the open", and honestly wanted you to meet some of us here . She was not being secretive about anything .

    I understand your statement you mentioned, " I am disappointed that people who want help don't go to the ones who really care about them. " I hear what you are saying. It probably seems to you we should go to the elders to get assistance for our troubles as they are appointed by God's holy spirit. But did you know that many of us- myself included, did go to elders previously with our problems - and we're given wrong, unscriptural counsel - not backed by the " faithful & discreet slave " ? In my marriage that ended 5 years ago - I was counseled to take back a methamphetamine drug addict wife who had left me and endangered my teenage daughters ! This was the elders counsel ! To take her back !I had to disagree because it flew in the face of everything I was raised to trust and believe in ! So your comment that the " faithful slave has our best interests whether they are right or wrong " might not be entirely accurate.

    So, please be assured of our love for you and your wife here. We aren't the big , bad , boogeymen. We truly care about people , and their ability to think clearly, reasonably, have the privilege to prove things to themselves. I wish you and your wife all the happiness in the world ! Hope to hear soon from you ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

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