I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!

by Witness 007 343 Replies latest jw experiences

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Your info is not bad!! Burn I said Arius {one God} was from the east, NOT west

    My mistake, I meant Athanasius, of the famous Athanasian creed, not Arius, his opponent. Athanasius was from Alexandria.

    as your qoutes show he had the OLDEST church in Alexandria

    Arius was a priest, not a bishop. He had no church. He served under Alexander, the bishop of Alexandria. Alexander opposed Arius' teaching.

    also my info is talking about years AFTER the council of Nicea the eastern church with headquaters moved to Consantinople was {one God} while Rome west was definatley Trinity based, for a long time.

    You'll have to explain how the move took place. There was a bishop of Constantinople, as there were bishops in all the other large cities. With the seating of the Emperor in Constantinople, the bishop of Constantinople became the most prominent in the East.

    .....in the end the west won!

    By teaching a doctrine that was finally defined with the majority support of the Eastern churches.

    Burn

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Let me mention that there are traditionally seven archangels.

    From the Navarre Bible Commentary:

    The "seven spirits" stand for God's power and omniscience and
    intervention in the events of history. In Zechariah 4:10 divine power
    is symbolized by the seven "eyes of the Lord, which range the whole
    earth". Further on in the Apocalypse (5:6), St John tells us that the
    seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth are the seven eyes of
    the Lamb, that is, Christ. This symbolism (also found in the Old
    Testament: cf. Is 11:2ff) is used to show that God the Father acts
    through his Spirit and that this Spirit has been communicated to Christ
    and by him to mankind. So, when St John wishes grace and peace from the
    seven spirits of God it is the same as saying "from the Holy Spirit",
    who is sent to the Church after the death and resurrection of Christ.
    Patristic tradition was in fact interpreted the seven spirits as
    meaning the septiform Spirit with his seven gifts as described in
    Isaiah 11:1-2 in St Jerome's translation, the Vulgate.

    Burn

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    Realone,

    You are correct! The 7 spirits = the Holy Spirit.

    7 because that is God's perfect, Holy number. And Isaiah clarifies Revelation and tells us that each "spirit" is representative of one of God's perfect qualities. These perfect qualities or 7 Spirits of God also rests upon his only Son. Like realone says the 7 actually make up the 1 Holy Spirit of God. Peace, Lilly

  • MOG
    MOG

    Thanks Lilly and Real One

    So the Holy Spirit has many spirits?? Kinda like the trinity, 3 gods but its one..now the holy spirit has spirits..OH NO!! hahah..

    the one that gest me is "FATHER OF SPIRITS" in Hebrew 12:9..why not just the father of the holy spirit??

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    the one that gest me is "FATHER OF SPIRITS" in Hebrew 12:9..why not just the father of the holy spirit??

    There are other spirits in Scripture. The angels for example.

    Burn

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    MOG,

    Good point. Did you read my post about the 7 spirits resting on Christ mentioned in Isaiah? (its a few back, I hit enter after a few people already responded)

    Contrary to what some people believe we simply cannot fully understand everything about God and his Spirit. Who can really know the knowledge of God? No one can. So if there is a teaching we do not fully understand, like the trinity, I do not think God will hold it against us. Peace, Lilly

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    the one that gest me is "FATHER OF SPIRITS" in Hebrew 12:9..why not just the father of the holy spirit??

    There are other spirits in Scripture. The angels for example.

    Burn

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    MOG,

    Good point. Did you read my post about the 7 spirits resting on Christ mentioned in Isaiah? (its a few back, I hit enter after a few people already responded)

    Contrary to what some people believe we simply cannot fully understand everything about God and his Spirit. Who can really know the knowledge of God? No one can. So if there is a teaching we do not fully understand, like the trinity, I do not think God will hold it against us. Peace, Lilly

  • MOG
    MOG

    thanks everyone..I am bowing out now..I'll stick with Jehovah being THE GOD, Jesus being GOD, and the HOLY SPIRIT is something different (kinda like metaclorians in StarWars). I am not going to confuse myself anymore..

    May the force be with you all..

  • fjtoth
    fjtoth

    Mouthy,

    I find this thread a real laugh. And before it is finished a fight is going to break out for sure ( I am prophetess)

    With all due respect, I think you fail to see the true picture here. More than 170 posts have been entered in this thread, and there is very little "fight" to speak of. I think Witness007, Reniaa and a few others deserve more credit than that. They've hung in there regardless of the fact that they've been bombarded by the majority. And the majority have included some mockers, laughers and even twisters of scripture.

    An explanation of the Trinity requires all sorts of contortions and juxtapositions, and the average person comes away feeling none of it makes any sense at all. Even your illustration would be laughable if you weren't so serious about it. How can you liken 3 human qualities (body, soul and spirit) to 3 divine persons? The "body" is not a complete person by itself. Neither is the "spirit" of a person. Why don't you also mention "mind," "heart" and "ego"? If there were truth in your reasoning, each of us would be at least 6 persons within ourselves, not just three! To carry your illustration further, if each of those 6 "persons" also contained 6 "persons," each of us would be a multitudinous world of "persons," not merely a trinity! My point is that there is absolutely no way to illustrate the triune god that ancient men invented in both heathendom and the churches. It is foolish and silly to try.

    As far as I know, it has been only the churches that have threatened and actually murdered people because they wouldn't accept this silly doctrine. Little wonder, in view of such church documents as the Athanasian Creed which condemns non-trinitarians to eternal damnation! They "shall perish everlastingly" and "cannot be saved," according to the Creed. But where in the Bible are we told our faith and devotion are worthless unless we view God as three instead of as the Holy One?

    The Trinity makes no sense at all. Jesus plainly said that he and the Jews had the correct view of the only God who should be worshiped. (John 4:22) The Jews haven't changed their concept of God during all the centuries since then, and God Himself has not changed. (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17) Nowhere does the Bible speak of God as "the Holy Three." (Isaiah 41:14; 49:7) Either Jesus and the Jews were correct about God or Trinitarians are correct. We can't have it both ways.

    fjtoth

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