Atheists, Why the Anger?

by XJW4EVR 147 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • 5go
    5go
    *****(MY REPLY THEN) Let me explain just how far off science is my little friend. Not only can science not create life from dead matter, but science cannot even put life back into what once WAS LIVING. Take 4 year old Johnny that just drowned. ALL THE PIECES are right there in front of them. The brain, lungs, liver, circulatory systems etc etc etc are already RIGHT THERE. But guess what, they can't even make that little Johnny LIVE AGAIN, much less create life, from lifeless matter in a controlled environment. And yet, you believe ALL THINGS just happened to come exist from lifeless matter, OUTSIDE OF a controlled setting? And answer this, where did that lifeless matter come from to begin with? Where did the earth, sun, moon and gazillion of stars originate from? How did the mountains originate? The clouds, water, the perfect spin of the earth??? I can put ten million questions just like these on your lap as well. No matter how you slice and dice it, these things cannot, THEY COULD NOT simply originate on there own, as intricate, **PURPOSEFUL** highly organized and structured systems that they are.

    My reply most people can take their car apart but will never get it running again I can why becuase I know what the parts do and how the operate and what the need to operate correctly. when it comes to living things we are just now getting what it take to get the to go back to gether correctly. By the way we can do it with bacteria currently.

  • AllAlongTheWatchtower
    AllAlongTheWatchtower

    1) Because of people like Perry and Vinny. Much as Jeff Foxworthy of 'You might be a redneck if" fame has said in his comedy routine: "I hate the fact that everybody thinks southerners are ALL stupid. There ARE smart southerners, we just can't keep the dumbest among us off the tv". There are rational, thinking religious people who I, as an atheist, can have an intellectually stimulating discussion with, where we can agree to disagree. Then there are the other people.

    2) Because of personal life experience. I could make a list, but egad, where to start? One example of an experience I had was with a very religious drill instructor in Marine Corps boot camp. In the orientation phase at the beginning of boot camp, he proudly stated that he had an unbroken record of 100% platoon participation in chapel services on Sunday, going back x number of years that he had been an instructor. Not being stupid enough to buck him in front of the whole platoon, I approached him privately to tell him that I would not attend services. I was threatened with court martial (a bluff, he knew he couldn't, but I didn't...yet), given extra duty, and generally became the low man on the totem pole in the platoon due to all this. He made it his mission in life to harass me and assign me extra duties and 'shit details' whenever something came up. On Sundays, he would force me to march with the platoon all the way to the chapel (a valid order I could not disobey), then play headgames with me on the front steps in an attempt to force me to attend, and finally, each week, when I refused, would send me running back on the double to stand guard duty in the empty barracks.

    3) Because of misconceptions. Many theists need an education on what an atheist is. I can't count the number of times I've had talks where I revealed to someone that I was atheist, only to have them respond by saying something along the lines of "Oh, but you seemed so nice...how can you worship satan?" By definition, atheism is without theism...without religion...satan is a product of god, without one, the other is just as meaningless. Too many religious people have been indoctrinated to a polarized belief system, "if you are not of the body, you are of the world" or however you wish to put it. I am outside the mold. I refuse and refute your definitions. God and satan are two sides of the same coin, atheists have NO coin.

    4) Because of placating and patronizing. By which I mean, these sort of statements: "You're an atheist? It's ok, Jesus loves you anyway" or (see my military experience above) "There's no atheists in foxholes", or "you just haven't seen the light yet, one day you will" or "ooooh...you used to be a JW, no WONDER- you just had a bad experience with religion"...as if, had you only had the RIGHT experience (which of course, usually means attending the church of the one making the statement), all would be smiles and rainbows, you poor silly misquided child, you.

    5) Opinion: On this board at least, which has a rather unique set of group dynamics, because of a desire to share...enlightenment...freedom? Not sure how to put it... I will attempt to explain. Most of us here had a bad religious experience, and fled the JWs (or in my case, the Worldwide Church of God/Armstrong). I think many here desire a shared experience of newfound freedom, a sense of relief that it wasn't all true. Having escaped the frying pan, and become atheists in the process, I think many of us look around and feel a need to express that in some way, and share the escape experience with others, only to be dismayed when they see that to the atheist way of thinking, some have escaped the frying pan only to fall into the fire. I think a lot of atheists think that with just one little push, they can make the believer convert to the truth. "They've come halfway, maybe they can make the next intuitive leap." In a sense, many of us are just as guilty of proselytizing as evangelicals.

  • looseend
    looseend

    I am an Atheist. It's not that I am angry if someone believes in god. It is when it becomes a life altering thing. When a relative throws away a scholarship to go out in service and preach. When families are torn apart because one believes and another stops believing.

    When lives are lost and conflicts started over religion, then there is a problem. The fact is nobody can just believe in god. They have to live it.

    Judgement is cast upon others, sometimes even death. In some countries if you oppose religion you are executed. It isn't always like it is here in the U.S. were we are protected from prosecution.

    The people on here either have strong convictions or have obviously been effected one way or the other by religion.

    I may not be able to prove or disprove god, but I know one thing, I can except change if I am wrong I will admit it and except it.

  • Vinny
    Vinny

    Lore says:..."Cool, I'm looking forward too it. Just FYI I never hold grudges. For me, a debate is just a debate. I agree with the taking our time thing too. This Wednesday I have to finish my senior project. And I'll be working on that for the next three days. So I'll be severely limiting the time I spend here.


    ***** Fair enough. I will be wanting to start with Micah 5:2, which reads:

    "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."


    Written: sometime between 750-686 BC. Fulfilled: 5 BC


    Micah 5:2 reveals that Bethlehem would be the birthplace of the Messiah.


    For Christians, the prophecy is very powerful in a very simple way. It eliminates all other cities and towns throughout the world as a place in which the Messiah could be born. It narrows the possibilities to one tiny village just south of Jerusalem.

    And throughout the span of the past 27 centuries, from the days of the prophet Micah up through the present time, Bethlehem is credited as being the birthplace for only one person who is widely known throughout the world. And that person is Jesus Christ. The New Testament books of Matthew and Luke list Bethlehem as the birthplace of Jesus. Matthew 2:1-6 describes the birth of Jesus as the fulfillment of Micah's prophecy.






    Peace to you and yours,

    v

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Top Hat

    Oh, I'm not letting you be happy (on the basis of your belief structure based upon a logical fallacy). I am just happy to let you get on with your life provided you do no harm to others. You are the one letting themselves be happy with an illogical and unsupportable belief structure; thems YOUR standards, not mine.

    Now, you could actually be honest, and admit you have a belief structure based upon a logical fallacy, but that that doesn't matter to you as you have faith.

    Or you can prove that your belief structure is not based upon a logical fallacy.

    Or you can carry on as you are, obviously evading a lethal flaw in your argument.

    It's up to you what you do.

    Vinny

    Please keep up your petulant, vain and wholly laughable postings. As an ex-cultist, one of my chief concerns is that those who are just exiting a cult might be taken advantage of by other religionists who are also involved with high-control or otherwise toxic belief structures.

    Having someone as transcendent in their ignorance, as palpably evasive and dishonest in their replies, and as repugnantly offensive and vain in their attitudes as you really helps people fresh out of the frying pan realise what fire not to jump into.

    You are so far removed from any concept of Christian behaviour as to make yourself a laughing stock for even claiming it.

    But please, keep it up. Modern day Pharisees like you and Perry are just what those fresh out of a cult need to frighten them away from religion for good.

    Of course, I might have you and Perry all wrong... in which case you'll be able to succinctly and courteously inform me why your insistence that god doesn't have a begining is not a logical fallacy.

    If you don't understand what a logical fallacy is, I'll help out. Maybe you are just misguided and ill-informed as distinct from malign and stupid.

  • poppers
    poppers

    To AllAlongTheWatchtower: I enjoyed your post, especially point #2. I too was in the Marine Corps, so I can understand what you must have been up against. Fortunately, I didn't have that particular problem when I was in, but there were plenty of other challenges. Thanks for your service. Semper Fi.

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    Vinny, you think God created it all?

    ALL plants and ALL insects, ALL humans with their many incredible systems just happens to be the result of some replicating polymer, from some soup-like conditions without ANY help from ANY intelligent force anywhere?

    Why did he create viruses that make us sick and kill so many humans? Why create all the parasites that cause so much hurt to others of his creation? Dogs didn't sin and yet have the same problems with sickness as humans. Even plants die because of diseases and parasites. Why would a loving God do this to his creations?

    Now here comes the Devil, another creation of God which will cause so many millions of humans to be burned in hell for eternity. I don't like the God so many people worship. Even an athiest wouldn't do that to the world.

    Ken P.

  • XJW4EVR
    XJW4EVR
    Why are theists threatened by the non-belief of others?

    As a Theist, I am not threatened by the non-belief of others.

    If what you believe is truth, what could possibly threaten it?

    Again, for me, your non-belief does not threaten any belief structure I have.

    These are excellent questions, but I restate my question. Why does my belief threaten atheists?

    Why are so many theists unable to separate religion and politics when entering the public forum?

    I would say that the reason why theists do not bifurcate religion and politics, is that many of them build their political philosophy upon their foundation of religious philosophy. Are they perfectly consistent in achieving that? No, but then I don't anyone is perfect.

    And, ironically enough, it's the faithful who always place society in the greatest danger - either from threatening our life, liberty or pursuit of hapiness; 100% anithetical to the values they publicly profess to adhere to.

    I agree with this statement. It is true of the atheists that ran the death camps, killing fields, and gulags in many former Communist countries.

  • serotonin_wraith
    serotonin_wraith

    Vinny wrote:

    "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."


    Written: sometime between 750-686 BC. Fulfilled: 5 BC

    So, a prophecy was fulfilled in the SAME book that made it? It's like reading a book where a wizard tells a boy he will face danger in London, and in the last chapter the boy faces danger in London, and on that basis thinking that it actually happened!

    XJW4EVR wrote:

    Why does my belief threaten atheists?

    Religion affects the world. There are wars fought, one religion against another. In the UK recently, gays were finally able to have equal rights, and the only ones wanting to stop that were the religious people (they petitioned, sent letters, threatened to close down their adoption services and even managed to get air time on the national news to spout their backwards homophobic beliefs - something which in no way affects them, by the way. Or anyone for that matter).

    Another example of how religion affects the world is when it tries to hold back science. Stem cell research (which could cure millions) is being held up by, yep you guessed it, religion. Evolution is STILL not being taught in some schools, and it's a proven scientific fact. Why not? It destroys the beliefs of people who take Genesis as literal. The Dark Ages was a period of time where science couldn't progress at all. For hundreds of years. Why? Because religions had all the power, and they used it to hold back the search for truth. Can you imagine how advanced we'd be now if science had been able to progress during that time?

    How about brainwashing children into believing God will punish them if they start to think for themselves and question their parents particular religion? It's mental child abuse, and it's disgusting.

    It is true of the atheists that ran the death camps, killing fields, and gulags in many former Communist countries.

    It wasn't done because they were atheist, any more than they did it because they had moustaches. And if you mean Hitler, plenty of evidence shows he was Christian anyway.

  • Amber Rose
    Amber Rose

    From this thread I get the impression that some of you think that the majority of the wars and world's problems can be eliminated by ridding the world of reilgion. I disagree. People will always find a reason to fight or find ways to excuse evil actions. Religion is an easy outlet. Reilgion has inspired much good in the world, which isn't to say that only religious people are capable of good but most churches (not JWs) have charities and social outreach programs. I think that there must be some natural law that says that any thing which can be used for good, can be used for a equal or greater amount of evil. There are lots of examples.

    I wish I could make myself believe in faries.

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