Talk on Apostates

by IslandBrother 86 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Confession
    Confession

    Dedicated to Island Brother...

    Cognitive Dissonance...A Mind Dance

    There are things that I believe, hold them closely to my heart
    I may myself deceive, to keep on feeling smart

    As time itself advances, new facts come to the fore
    My mind will do its dances, it helps me to ignore

    Two conflicting notions, now what to think—oh dear!
    My brain sets into motion, says, “Looky over here!”

    Beliefs are funny things, they really keep you hopping
    When truth brings on its stings, sometimes they need some propping

    But if the truth is really—your primary intention
    You must avoid those silly—cog-ni-tive inventions

    The mind creates a smokescreen, a most deceptive state
    It causes you to weigh things—with a ‘faulty set of weights’

    If your love for truth is strong, set your pride upon a shelf
    Admit you could be wrong, and be honest with yourself

    -Confession

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    as long as you finish with " Isnt the Organization Wonderful Brothers" you will be fine

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Isn't it interesting how our varied comments are all lumped together? I'd be more impressed if IslandBrother took the time to address our specific concerns one-by-one and provided a reasoned response. Instead, he declares that his beliefs have been "strengthened" by our comments. How, I wonder?

  • Quandry
    Quandry

    This poster's faith was strengthened as he thought about how true all the WTS's words are--how about these?

    Then:

    *** re chap. 38 p. 274 par. 6 Praise Jah for His Judgments! ***

    It was in 1918 that Jehovah began rewarding ‘those fearing his name, the small and the great’—the first of these being the anointed Christians who had died faithful, whom he resurrected and stationed in the heavenly ranks of the 24 elders. (Revelation 11:18)

    Now: WT Jan 2007

    Three and a half years later in the spring of 33 CE he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it then be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began 3 1/2 years later in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the bible, (like virtually ALL of their doctrines can't) it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ's presence began.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Have you ever walked on the beach and tried following another persons footprints; matching your own steps with them as exactly as possible? By calling ourselves Christians, we have indicated our desire to do just that, to follow closely in the footsteps of Christ. Have you ever noticed though that on a crowded beach, , there were several sets of footprints, Many of them may look alike. Well, in a spiritual sense, we need to be certain that we are following the correct ones! Otherwise we may be tricked into going in the wrong direction, leaving the path Jesus set before us. This is what apostates have done. If you have your reasoning book please turn with me to page 34 and read with me the definition of apostasy. Definition: Apostasy is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of God, actually a rebellion against Jehovah God. Some apostates profess to know and serve God but reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible but reject Jehovah’s organization. Tonight let’s discuss a couple of ways in which we can identify apostates. First let’s look at “Acts 20:30 From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” And now let’s turn to (Romans 16:17-18) and notice how Paul helped the Roman congregation identify the footprints of apostates. 17 Now I exhort YOU, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that YOU have learned, and avoid them. 18 For men of that sort are slaves, not of our Lord Christ, but of their own bellies; and by smooth talk and complimentary speech they seduce the hearts of guileless ones. Did you notice some identifying marks? Apostates aren’t satisfied just following another set of foot prints. They aim to make others their followers by using…. Counterfeit words Smooth talk Twisted reasoning Half-truths Flattery Deceptive logic Empty speeches And Outright lies to try to draw us away from Christ’s footsteps. They often concentrate on the imperfections of those who Jehovah has chosen to watch over the Christian congregation. They toss around seeds of doubt by using public criticism and other methods to get in the way of our work. Do you remember the account of Korah and his associates who rejected Jehovah’s visible organization? How did Jehovah feel about them? At Numbers 16:21 Jehovah said: “Separate yourselves from the midst of this assembly, that I may exterminate them in an instant.” We “separate ourselves” by steering clear of their reasoning—whether in person, in printed form, or on the Internet. As loyal Witnesses of Jehovah, we therefore have absolutely nothing in common with them. True Christians do not want to deviate from the path Christ has set before us. We love the organization that has taught us the precious truths that so plainly separate us from Babylon the Great. So friends, as Christians let us continually follow in the foot steps that Christ has so clearly left for us that lead to everlasting life

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Sorry for the double post - let's break this down a little bit;

    Have you ever walked on the beach and tried following another persons footprints; matching your own steps with them as exactly as possible? By calling ourselves Christians, we have indicated our desire to do just that, to follow closely in the footsteps of Christ. Have you ever noticed though that on a crowded beach, , there were several sets of footprints, Many of them may look alike. Well, in a spiritual sense, we need to be certain that we are following the correct ones! Otherwise we may be tricked into going in the wrong direction, leaving the path Jesus set before us.

    Up to this point - he has it fairly correctly from almost any Christian point of view.

    This is what apostates have done. If you have your reasoning book please turn with me to page 34 and read with me the definition of apostasy. Definition: Apostasy is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of God, actually a rebellion against Jehovah God.

    Notice that the first reference is to man's word, not God's. HMMMM

    Some apostates profess to know and serve God but reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible but reject Jehovah’s organization.

    Assertion; I am apostate - I do not reject anything except the man-made religion of Jehovah's witnesses. Jehovah's witnesses of course can neither prove nor support the idea that THEY are God's organization. They have done that, they have rejected the body of Christ.

    Tonight let’s discuss a couple of ways in which we can identify apostates. First let’s look at “Acts 20:30 From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” And now let’s turn to (Romans 16:17-18) and notice how Paul helped the Roman congregation identify the footprints of apostates. 17 Now I exhort YOU, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that YOU have learned, and avoid them. 18 For men of that sort are slaves, not of our Lord Christ, but of their own bellies; and by smooth talk and complimentary speech they seduce the hearts of guileless ones. Did you notice some identifying marks? Apostates aren’t satisfied just following another set of foot prints. They aim to make others their followers by using…. Counterfeit words Smooth talk Twisted reasoning Half-truths Flattery Deceptive logic Empty speeches And Outright lies to try to draw us away from Christ’s footsteps. They often concentrate on the imperfections of those who Jehovah has chosen to watch over the Christian congregation. They toss around seeds of doubt by using public criticism and other methods to get in the way of our work. Do you remember the account of Korah and his associates who rejected Jehovah’s visible organization? How did Jehovah feel about them? At Numbers 16:21 Jehovah said: “Separate yourselves from the midst of this assembly, that I may exterminate them in an instant.” We “separate ourselves” by steering clear of their reasoning—whether in person, in printed form, or on the Internet. As loyal Witnesses of Jehovah, we therefore have absolutely nothing in common with them. True Christians do not want to deviate from the path Christ has set before us. We love the organization that has taught us the precious truths that so plainly separate us from Babylon the Great. So friends, as Christians let us continually follow in the foot steps that Christ has so clearly left for us that lead to everlasting life

    The scriptures here point correctly at Jehovahs' witnesses themselves, do they not? The WTS has deviated from both the teaching of Jesus and that of Paul in most significant ways.

    Counterfiet words and smooth talk is also correct - just read the Watchliar and see that. And yes they also attack those seeking to protect God's flock. And of course outright lies is a regular feature of thier program of indoctrination. They attack the imperfection of the churches while 'leaving the rafter' of their own wrongdoing unnoticed, indeed.

    The Watchtower apostates have done precisely as Korah and his followers did - rejection of the Greater Moses, Jesus. Just go to the memorial this spring and watch 14 million of them reject the emblems he instructed us to partake of in remembrance.

    Absolutely - True Christians would want to have nothing to do with them.

    By the way - in what church is this man going to deliver this warning against Jehovah's Witnesses? I think he could make the conclusion a little stronger though and mention Revelation 18:4 and it's precise application to cults like Jehovah's witnesses. He might also desire to offer a heartfelt prayer for them before he steps off the lecturn.

    May God bless him.

    Jeff

  • IslandBrother
    IslandBrother

    Hey by the way... since i am new to this and what not... are there any active JWs in here?

  • fullofdoubtnow
    fullofdoubtnow
    Hey by the way... since i am new to this and what not... are there any active JWs in here?

    Quite a few, but most of them would rather not be.

    They stay in for the sake of their family and friends. We all know the treatment the wts dishes out to those who leave

    btw welcome to the forum

  • Honesty
    Honesty
    Hey by the way... since i am new to this and what not... are there any active JWs in here? IB

    Yes, there are.

    BTW, how do you feel about the Watchtower Society's study article this past Sunday where they said that a resurrected one of the 24 elders may be communicationg Divine Truths today to Jehovah's earthly organization? Flies in the face of the Reasoning Book doesn't it?

    Reasoning Book page 384 - Spiritism

    Definition:

    Belief that a spirit part of humans survives death of the physical body and can communicate with the living, usually through a person who serves as a medium. Some people believe that every material object and all natural phenomena have indwelling spirits. Sorcery is the use of power that is acknowledged to be from evil spirits. AllformsofspiritismarestronglycondemnedintheBible.

    With

    whom are those who endeavor to speak with the dead actually communicating?

    The truth about the condition of the dead is clearly stated in the Bible. But who tried to deceive the first human pair about death? Satan contradicted God’s warning that disobedience would bring death. (Gen. 3:4; Rev. 12:9) In time, of course, it became obvious that humans did die as God said they would. Reasonably, then, who was responsible for inventing the idea that humans really do not die but that some spirit part of man survives the death of the body? Such a deception fits Satan the Devil, whom Jesus described as "the father of the lie." (John 8:44; see also 2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10.) Belief that the dead are really alive in another realm and that we can communicate with them has not benefited mankind. On the contrary, Revelation 18:23 says that, by means of the spiritistic practices of Babylon the Great, "all the nations were misled." The spiritistic practice of ‘talking with the dead’ is actually a fraudulent deception that can put people in contact with the demons (angels that became selfish rebels against God) and often leads to a person’s hearing unwanted voices and being harassed by those wicked spirits.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    "Hey by the way... since i am new to this and what not... are there any active JWs in here?" Reminds me of when I used to go to a jw chatroom on yahoo, when a jw would come in and ask that question. And if they found any they would gang up on the non or exjws and the booting would ensue. Most of the meanness would come from the jws...I wonder why?

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