The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness 1380 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    In my post # 4702 I replied to thirdwitless' claim that "Jesus becomes the newly established king of God's kingdom in 1914 as testified by the world events and the 7 times" with the following facts:

    (1) Earthquake frequency and magnitude since 1914 is not statistically different from any preceding time period for which data is available. Since 1993 the Society has admitted this.

    (2) The risk of dying in an earthquake in the 20th century was a bit less than in the 19th century, and less than one third of that in the 18th century.

    (3) On a per capita basis, famine killed far fewer people in the 20th century than in previous ones. Indeed, today the number of overweight people in the world exceeds the number of malnourished.

    (4) On a per capita basis, pestilence killed far fewer people in the 20th century than in previous ones. Indeed, some historically major killers, such as smallpox, have been virtually wiped out.

    (5) On a per capita basis, war has killed about the same number of people in the 20th century as in all preceding centuries for which we have good historical data.

    (6) If the "world events" that the Watchtower Society claims have been far worse killers of humanity in the 20th century than ever before have really been killing people on a far more massive scale than ever before, we would see a drastic decline in world population. The opposite has been occuring during the entire period since World War I.

    Even if only one of points (1) through (6) were true, the Watchtower Society's claims about a "composite sign" visible since 1914 are falsified. Since all of them are true, Watchtower doctrine is certainly proved false. Obviously, thirdwitness knows this, and is continuing his little game of ignoring every challenge he can't answer.

    AlanF

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    Frank75: I don’t know if the question has already been raised, but why doesn’t he reveal himself? If he is “in the truth” and is speaking the truth, what does he have to fear by coming out from behind the curtain of anonymity?

    Hi, Frank75!

    In this thread, thirdwitness has already directly disagreed in public with at least two doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Proverbs 10:19 In the abundance of words there does not fail to be transgression, but the one keeping his lips in check is acting discreetly.

    Because thirdwitness has a lot to say and cannot say it without the protection of anonimity lest he be held accountable for his words by the very organization he purports to defend, he will choose to remain anonymous. While we, with unveiled faces, can say whatever we like under our own names. Who lives in the constant shadow of fear and who enjoys true freedom?

    According to the Governing Body, thirdwitness is an immature Christian:

    Watchtower August 1, 2001, p. 14 par. 8
    8 First, since “oneness” is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and “the faithful and discreet slave.” By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided “at the proper time”—through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions—we can be sure that we maintain “oneness” with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge.—Matthew 24:45.

    Therefore, he cannot risk public exposure because he would be revealed as an immature Christian in his congregation. I suspect he is an elder and, if so, such exposure would be embarassing for him. I suspect "he" is more than one elder sharing a single account here.

    Isn't it interesting that the Bible is missing from the list the Watchtower provided of sources of spiritual food?

    Respectfully,
    Brandon

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    Flash (it's always hard to resist singing 'Flash! Ah ahhh' when I see your name)

    ewatchman's essays were too verbose for me to read

    'Verbose.' You're not wrong there!

    I do believe the Witnesses are God's modern day people.

    This is interesting. Do you mean in the same exclusive sense, i.e. that they alone have been chosen and all other Christian groups have been rejected?
  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    In addition to AuldSoul's post 4212, on thirdwitness's web site he makes a statement excluding the faithful and discreet from spiritual authority. This alone would require disfellowshipping as it is on a public forum, and written for fellow Jehovah's Witnesses. He would be seen as 'causing divisions', and it may also be seen as a sin against the spirit (and we all know what that means).

    steve

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    STEVE: In addition to AuldSoul's post 4212, on thirdwitness's web site he makes a statement excluding the faithful and discreet from spiritual authority. This alone would require disfellowshipping as it is on a public forum, and written for fellow Jehovah's Witnesses. He would be seen as 'causing divisions', and it may also be seen as a sin against the spirit (and we all know what that means).

    WHERE. Please quote it.

  • crazyblondeb
    crazyblondeb

    I've watched your bull*cough*shit for a while now. Why don't you run back to your web site, that JW's were told to stay away from, and your other forums. I'm sure e-jehovahs's witness is more to your liking. But then, are you not getting enough attention there? Just had to come here? Haven't you been to the DC and agree to the resolutions?

    But then, go ahead and keep making an ass of yourself. Just remember, your jehobah can see all, and according to you, will judge. Guess that means you won't make it into your paradise. So you are doomed with the rest of us.

    When I visited the other site you were judgemental and a horse's ass. My bullshit dector is working overtime. Go spread your manure elsewhere.

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    Alan, your last post (4712) just about sums it all up. Facts show we are far better off today than in previous years.

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    Where is this promised presence of his? Why paraousia doesn't even mean
    presence. How can there be a presence when paraousia doesn't even mean
    presence. Indeed where oh where is this promised presence. Why look things
    are as they always were, no they are better.

    AlanF's contention:
    Dead wrong. The Society claims that earthquakes, famine, pestilence and war
    suddenly became much worse problems for mankind in 1914. The facts say
    otherwise:

    Largest earthquakes by magnitude

    Pos. Date Location Magnitude
    1 May 22, 1960 Chile 9.5
    2 October 16, 1737 Kamchatka, Russia 9.3
    3 March 28, 1964 Prince William Sound, Alaska, United States 9.2
    4 December 26, 2004 Off west coast northern Sumatra, Indonesia 9.0-9.3*
    5 March 9, 1957 Andreanof Islands, Alaska, United States 9.1
    6 November 4, 1952 Kamchatka, Russia 9.0
    7 January 26, 1700 Cascadia subduction zone from Northern California to Vancouver Island ~9
    8 January 31, 1906 Colombia-Ecuador 8.8
    9 February 4, 1965 Rat Islands, Alaska, United States 8.7
    10 November 24, 1833 Sumatra, Indonesia 8.7
    11 November 1, 1755 Lisbon, Portugal ~8.7
    12 March 28, 2005 Sumatra, Indonesia 8.5-8.7*
    13 December 16, 1920 Ningxia-Gansu, China 8.6
    14 August 15, 1950 Assam-Tibet 8.6

    Deadliest earthquakes on record

    Pos. Date Location Fatalities Magnitude Comments
    1 January 23, 1556 Shaanxi, China 830,000 ~8
    2 December 26, 2004 Off west coast northern Sumatra, Indonesia 283,100 9.0-9.3 Deaths from earthquake and tsunami.
    3 July 27, 1976 Tangshan, China 255,000 (official) 7.5 Estimated death toll as high as 655,000.
    4 August 9, 1138 Aleppo, Syria 230,000
    5 December 22, 856+ Damghan, Iran 200,000
    5 December 16, 1920 Ningxia-Gansu, China 200,000 8.6 Major fractures, landslides.
    5 May 22, 1927 Tsinghai, China 200,000 7.9 Large fractures.
    8 March 23, 893+ Ardabil, Iran 150,000
    9 September 1, 1923 Kanto, Japan 143,000 7.9 Great Tokyo fire.
    10 October 5, 1948 Ashgabat, Turkmenistan, USSR 110,000 7.3
    Source: USGS http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eqlists/eqsmosde.html

    9 out of 14 of greatest magnitude since 1914. Over half with greatest casualities since 1914. What you fail to understand is this coupled with all the other parts of the sign show we are in the last days.

    (2) The risk of dying in an earthquake in the 20th century was a bit less
    than in the 19th century, and less than one third of that in the 18th
    century.

    Big deal even if this is true. Not what Jesus said at all. (3) On a per capita basis, famine killed far fewer people in the 20th
    century than in previous ones. Indeed, today the number of overweight people
    in the world exceeds the number of malnourished.

    Key words: per capita. Again not what Jesus said. Millions die from famine. More than ever in any other 92 year period.

    (4) On a per capita basis, pestilence killed far fewer people in the 20th
    century than in previous ones. Indeed, some historically major killers, such
    as smallpox, have been virtually wiped out.
    Key words: per capita. Again not what Jesus said. Spanish flu of 1918-19 unparalleled in human history. Millions die from pestilence. More than ever in any 92 year period.

    (5) On a per capita basis, war has killed about the same number of people in
    the 20th century as in all preceding centuries for which we have good
    historical data.

    Per capita again. Not what Jesus said. Nation rising against nation in the 20th/21st century is unparalleled in human history. Why do you think world war 1 was at first called 'The GREAT War'?

    (6) If the "world events" that the Watchtower Society claims have been far
    worse killers of humanity in the 20th century than ever before have really
    been killing people on a far more massive scale than ever before, we would
    see a drastic decline in world population. The opposite has been occuring
    during the entire period since World War I.

    Foolish reasoning and Not what Jesus said. Jesus said people would be living their everyday lives as if nothing was happening. What you are looking for is world troubles so bad that no one can live a normal life. But thats not what Jesus said. All the many things Jesus predicted make up the one sign of his parousia. Even you and your friends saying, "Where is the promised presence of his? Why, all thing are continuing....."
  • Frank75
    Frank75

    Hi, Frank75! In this thread, thirdwitness has already directly disagreed in public with at least two doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    I have noticed that is not the only thing. His (their) merely being here and engaging in this forum topic with known apostates (JW standard) is reason for being df’d himself. Incentive indeed for the JW to keep his identity hidden, but would actually be the best thing for him (them) if they came out in the open.

    Let the cards fall where they may! They are persons of faith are they not?

    It continues to say…..

    They need to join this forum to post, which includes person of many persuasions religiously and otherwise (very otherwise in some cases). Arguably thirdwitness has indeed taken up association with all who are here , like it or not. When he gets up on his soapbox it is no different than if he was visiting a local church to defend his beliefs from their pulpit. Either way he should be DF’d as a result the JW definition under apostasy in the KS book.

    Then there is this hogwash

    *** w86 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

    Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. What do such beliefs include?

    That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah’s sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17) That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a “faithful and discreet slave” upon earth today ‘entrusted with all of Jesus’ earthly interests,’ which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the . (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15–12:10) That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3) That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21) That it will be followed by Christ’s Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise. That the first to enjoy it will be the present “great crowd” of Jesus’ “other sheep.”—John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4. Do we have Scriptural precedent for taking such a strict position? Indeed we do! Paul wrote about some in his day: “Their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some.” (2 Timothy 2:17, 18; see also Matthew 18:6.) There is nothing to indicate that these men did not believe in God, in the Bible, in Jesus’ sacrifice. Yet, on this one basic point, what they were teaching as to the time of the resurrection, Paul rightly branded them as apostates, with whom faithful Christians would not fellowship.

    I especially like the justification in the final part of the diatribe above about Hymeneaus and Philetus. Paul said they had deviated from the truth by preaching that the resurrection has already occurred. Now how can any JW honestly read that and not wonder about the JW religion itself being a modern Hymenaeus? Why it’s official teaching on the resurrection is that it “has already occurred” after the fabled kingdoms establishment in 1914 ( w87 1/15 p. 19) to all of the saints and then to those anointed left on earth who received a “spiritual resurrection” in 1919 ( re chap. 30 p. 209)

    Isn't it interesting that the Bible is missing from the list the Watchtower provided of sources of spiritual food?

    Yes it is all quite fascinating really. I have also thoroughly enjoyed your posts here and so far consider you a kindred spirit. Perhaps our experiences are very similar.

    Frank75

  • Flash
    Flash

    fjtoth

    Only evil men would...

    That is a very good list!

    I love the 'Org. Inst. for Dummies,' so true.


    Frank75

    I am quite amazed at the tenacity of thirdwitness, and some of the other JW apologists. It is hard to believe that there are others as stubborn as I was!

    Your not the only one! LOL


    AlanF

    thirdwitless wrote in post # 306:

    You know you reduce yourself whenever you do this, right?


    AnnOMaly

    Flash (it's always hard to resist singing 'Flash! Ah ahhh' when I see your name)

    What song is that from? I must have missed it.

    This is interesting. Do you mean in the same exclusive sense, i.e. that they alone have been chosen and all other Christian groups have been rejected?

    Yes, based on the core teachings of the religions. I'm not judging the RF of any religion as being unworthy in God's eyes, just the religious institutions themselves...which now includes the WTS.

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