The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness 1380 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • thirdwitness

    Yep just like you disprove the 40 year desolation of Egypt didn't happen. Let me guess. Your answer will have something to do with the Bible being inaccurate, its prophecies failed, or it contradicts itself.

  • jayhawk1

    Even Catholics and all other protestant religions say Parousia means Christ's Second Coming (Day of the Lord, etc.) I am wondering aloud what AlanF has in mind...

  • TD

    Again, "presence" is a wrong translation of parousia in Matthew 24:3. No modern scholars agree with the Watchtower Society on this translation. Furthermore, the Society's 1997 exposition on it is self-contradictory and misrepresents source references.

    Also Young's Literal translation of the Bible reads: Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence , and of the full end of the age?'
    OOOps there's one Bible scholar that must agree with the new world translation.

    Confused about what constitutes a modern scholar are we?

  • hillary_step


    As for the presence--parousia thing, if you touch it, be forewarned that you're going to get your ass kicked bigtime, because I will prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the Society has deliberately lied about it.

    lol..I knew he would fall for this one. This guy is a theological innocent and I doubt whether he has ever looked at the Bible without a Watchtower blocking out the light. I would be very interested if you developed a thread of its own for this subject, I have much information that would add to your insights, I am sure. ThirdThingy,

    Your answer will have something to do with the Bible being inaccurate, its prophecies failed, or it contradicts itself.

    Nope. It has all to do with the WTS being inaccurate and contradictory, but we all know that you can easily substitute a Watchtower for a Bible and back again without even blinking. HS

  • AlanF

    Before I begin dismantling the Society's claim that parousia means "presence" in Matthew 24:3, thirdwitless, let me ask you a pertinent question:

    Do you believe that the Society's reference to Josephus' use of parousia in the footnote for paragraph 11 on page 11 of the August 15, 1996 Watchtower fairly represents Josephus' actual use of the word? If so, why? If not, why not?

    Again be forewarned: Do not waffle and do not tell lies, because these will be pounced on.


  • jayhawk1

    Might as well include me in this theologically innocent category. I am looking forward with great anticipation for what you guys are about to share. I am eagerly waiting for this one!

  • AuldSoul
    thirdwitness: Are we thru with the seven times being 2520 years or are there new points to be brought up?

    No, we aren't through. If, as you have repeatedly asserted, the usage of "times" instead of "years" must mean more than years, then the usage of "times" in Revelation must also mean more than years. Otherwise, your argument is false on its face. There is also a perfectly serviceable Greek word for "years" but the word for "times" was chosen instead, which reduces your argument for "times" in Daniel 4 spanning 2.5 millenia to nothing more significant than a case of special pleading.

    But, not content with that, you plead opposite positions for two meaning of "times" that you simulatneously claim are correlative.

    So, does the use of "times" instead of "years" mean more than years or less than years?


  • jayhawk1

    I had to look up what the NWT had to say about Matthew 24:3

    "While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the deciples approached him privately, saying: "Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and the conclusion of the system of things?"

    The center column references Matthew 24:27, 37, and 39.

    27 "For just as the lightning comes out of the eastern parts and shines over the western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

    37 "For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

    39 "and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

    Are all these tied together?

  • barry

    Im looking forward to Alan f writing on parousia. Thirdwitness you havent explained anywhere in the bible where the day -year rule is used some beleive it is used in Daniel 9 and thats why I brought it up in my posts at least twice.

    So I want to get it straight the rule says when interpreting predictive prophecy when one day is mentioned in the prophecy that equals one year. Is that correct?

    So when our lord in predictive prophecy said this temple will be destroyed and in three days it will be rebuilt that means our lord was in the grave for three years. I think im getting the idear 3 days = 3 years. Why didnt I see it before.

    Lets go to Daniel 4.32 Says 7 times, that is = seven years. No mention of days in this prophecy. The word day is not even there.


    3rd witness has openly admited to being unable to debate without the WBTS publications..That has been noticed and posted,by myself and others..It has also been noted and posted that 3rd Witness has not been honest ..He defined the terms of this thread and could not abide by them,but expected others to do so..Is that Fair?..Is that Honest?....3rd Witness,the Truth is not Within you..How can you expect anyone to believe what you have to say about biblical matters???...Good Luck,with AlanF ..Oh,and then there`s Hillary_step,he`s got a nice thread for you..You know,all the questions you ignore....."Oh what a terrible web we weave,when first we practice,to decieve"..Every thing is earned,enjoy what you`ve worked for..LOL!!...OUTLAW

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