The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible (page 75)

sspo

3wit

I still would like to know if the Jesus of the watchtower has all the authority in the universe, why all the changes in the last 130 years.

Jehovah gave the mosaic law, 613 of them, very clear and specific of the requirement for 1500 years with no changes.

Why is Jesus constantly changing doctrine, what kind of ruler and king is he?

Just admit it, the GB is just another religion that reads the bible and comes out with an their own interpretation.

They are just like the Pope of the Catholic church that claims to have the true religion.

Just get out of Bethel, life is not bad outside.

ackack

Wow! Frank Toth wrote 1 Corinthians? I knew it wasn't Paul, but I had no idea it was Frank. Good Job Frank! ackack

bjc2read

Please note:

There is an excellent debate on the topic of "Parousia" -- "Presence" Vs. "Coming" going on currently on an (Active) Jehovah's Witness discussion board. You may want to check this one out.

Here is the link:

http://www.scripturaldiscussion.com/viewtopic.php?t=217

Enjoy

bjc

AnnOMaly

FranK said: Thirdwitness, "All authority" means "all authority" with one exception: "'For [God] "subjected all things under his feet.' But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him." (1 Cor. 15:27, NW) Surely you were aware of this clear explanation of what "all authority" means!
Oh no no no no! You can't do that. All means all with no exceptions except for this one: "-- except perhaps in that fantasy land of Jehovah's Witnesses.." Just because you go to another part of the Bible which clarifies what was meant doesn't matter. All means all. Or are you living in the fantasy land of JWs?
Or are you here saying that we can use other parts of the Bible for clarification? Like 1 Cor 15:27. Or maybe like Daniel 7:13,14, Revelation 12:10 and Luke 19. Is that what you are saying? Because I could have sworn that AlanF was saying "All means all -- except perhaps in that fantasy land of Jehovah's Witnesses." Now here Frank is making another exception. Why frank?

LOL! Pot and kettle! So we're back to the question of why you, T-wit, won't make an exception with numerical symbolisms like 70 and 40 - insisting they mean exactly what they say, whereas you're quite happy making days into prophetic years and creative days into thousands of years without blinking. And you have the audacity to pick up on 'all.' Precious, just precious.

plmkrzy

Thirdwitness:
:Luke 17 offers a parallel of Matthew 24. An examination of it will reveal the true meaning of parousia.

Luke 17:26 Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage, until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all.

:Note that 'the days of Noah' = 'the days of the Son of man'.

:The days of Noah was a time when people were carrying on the everyday affairs of life and took no note of their impending destruction. They took no note of what Noah was saying and doing.

:Note that 'the days of Noah' = 'the days of the Son of man'.

There is nothing in those verses that say anything other then what people would be behaving like. Nowhere does it even lead the reader to believe that one time frame would have anything to do with another. ONLY what the atmosphere would be like. Is Jehovah going to flood the earth again just as it occurred in the days of Noah?

:Lets compare this scripture to Luke 17:26,27.

Luke: Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah,
Matt: For just as the days of Noah were

Luke:so it will be also in the days of the Son of man:
Matt:so the presence of the Son of man will be.

Luke: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage,
Matt: For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage,

Luke: until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all.
Matt: 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away,

:The sentences are virtually the same, almost identical with one notable exception. Luke says 'the days of the Son of man' but Matthew says 'presence of the Son of man'. What can we surmise from this?

What can we surmise from this?

Matt comes before Luke so the days of the son of man in Luke were in the presence of the days of the son of man in Matt. Luke is in the presence of Matt. Don't eeven say well that silly.

:The 'days of the Son of man' = the 'presence of the Son of man'.

:And both equal the days of Noah when people were living their everyday life taking no note of what Jehovah's servants were doing and saying. Then the flood came and swept them all away. A time period that lasted over 100 years.

And both equal??

They “WERE LIKE” Not equal. That’s what I read anyway but I’m no scholar…just a meek person.

The days or presence of the Son of man is not just paralleled by the period when the flood actually swept them all away. The days or parousia of Jesus is paralleled by the days of Noah before the flood also when they were taking no note of what was to come upon them. The days that someone is present involves not only their arrival but the period of days that they remain after their arrival.

I have no agenda other then to make some sense of what I read from whom ever I am reading. If thirdwitness posts things that make sense then WONDERFUL, but this IMHO makes absolutely no sense at all. The scriptures have been “ADDED TO” and you’re not supposed to do that, remember? Thirdwitness you have put meanings into these scriptures that just aren’t there.

The days that someone is present

I didn’t read that anywhere .

The days that someone is present involves not only their arrival but the period of days that they remain after their arrival.

The days of a presence however does include “IN SIGHT OF”

Plm

AlanF
I don't know of any. They're right scholarly books and as such, generally are not online. However, I found a website that has some online references: http://www.greek-language.com/lexical.aids/

Thanks. The more I try to research on line the more frustrating it gets swimming through all the religious websites to get to something real.

plm

Flash

AnnOMaly

Ummm, I think you have that back-to-front. According to WT theology

Thank you for noticing. I totaly disagree with them on this. The Governing Body over the decades have been, and still are, so self-aborbed that they erroneously apply everything towards themselves in a favorable way. Ignoring their own sins along with the scriptural reality about the consequences for their behavior.

Its apparent to me, that after waiting 35 years and seeing Amageddon fail to come in 1914, the Slave that was faithful turned Evil. And it has been this Evil Slave that has been lording it over and beating God's people ever since!

When the Master arrives at Armageddon to settle accounts, it will not go well for those leading the Governing Body and to a lesser degree for those assisting them.

Matthew 25: 28 and 30

28 "Therefore take away the talent from him and give it to him that has the ten talents...30 And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into darkness outside. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be."

Matthew 24: 50 and 51

50 "the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know , 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be."

Notice the three catagories and the distinctions Jesus made with regards to punishing the Evil Slave and its supporters:

Luke 12: 46 ~ 48

The Evil Slave ~ 46 "...he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones."
The Understanding Slave ~ 47 "Then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes."
The Not Understanding Slave ~ 48 "But the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few..."

Denial is not a river in Egypt.

Question, after God completely destroys false religion, who is it that would be left to ask this?

Matthew 7: 21 ~ 23

21 "Not everyone saying to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name? 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me you workers of lawlessness!"

This is all yet to happen...at Armageddon.

stevenyc

Ever get the feeling that Bethel reads this site?

I'm convinced of it.

plmkrzy

from the other site a, rebutal I thought was a bit funny:

There is nothing new or shocking here. The disciples had a wrong opinion at the time, an opinion that was later corrected after the Holy Spirit was poured out upon them and they progressed in knowledge and understanding.

lol! I can feel how this poster is trying so hard to defend.

The GB must still be waiting for the Holy Spirit to be poured upon them. The proper time isn’t here for them just yet. But when they write something they do not offer questions about these prophecies they write answers. One of the foremost requirements before baptism is allowed is: One MUST recognize 1914 as Jesus invisible second coming, the one just prior to his actual visible second coming. A JW M U S T believe this.

fjtoth

There is nothing new or shocking here. The disciples had a wrong opinion at the time, an opinion that was later corrected after the Holy Spirit was poured out upon them and they progressed in knowledge and understanding.

My, what a poor teacher Jesus must have been! According to the context in Acts 1, he spent over a month discussing nothing but the Kingdom with the apostles -- 40 days!!! And still they had "a wrong opinion." " To these also by many positive proofs he showed himself alive after he had suffered, being seen by them throughout forty days and telling the things about the kingdom of God." (Acts 1:3, NW)
Frank

Hellrider

Flash:

The Governing Body over the decades have been, and still are, so self-aborbed that they erroneously apply everything towards themselves in a favorable way. Ignoring their own sins along with the scriptural reality about the consequences for their behavior.
Its apparent to me, that after waiting 35 years and seeing Amageddon fail to come in 1914, the Slave that was faithful turned Evil. And it has been this Evil Slave that has been lording it over and beating God's people ever since!

...did it ever occur to you that it is this "slave" that you now claim is evil, that established the belief that the "beginning of the end" began in 1914? I don`t understand you, or people like you. You believe that the WTS are NOT spirit-directed, even that they are evil, but you still cling to their biblical interpretations and prophecies? I don`t get it.

AnnOMaly

Thank you for noticing. I totaly disagree with them on this. The Governing Body over the decades have been, and still are, so self-aborbed that they erroneously apply everything towards themselves in a favorable way. Ignoring their own sins along with the scriptural reality about the consequences for their behavior.
Its apparent to me, that after waiting 35 years and seeing Amageddon fail to come in 1914, the Slave that was faithful turned Evil. And it has been this Evil Slave that has been lording it over and beating God's people ever since!
When the Master arrives at Armageddon to settle accounts, it will not go well for those leading the Governing Body and to a lesser degree for those assisting them.

Ahhh. I see where you're coming from, Flash. Are you one of those 'Jehovah's Judgmenters' in the ewatchman vein, or is this something you've concluded yourself?

Anyway, I agree that it is more biblically consistent to link the Master's arrival with Armageddon and judgment.

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

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