A bit reluctant

by saki2fifty 148 Replies latest jw friends

  • AuldSoul
    saki2fifty: The WTS being the faithful and discreet slave may sound ridiculous to some...

    Hold on a minute there. According to the Watchtower Society they are NOT the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Neither are the Governing Body the Faithful and Discreet Slave. According to JW doctrine, the Faithful and Discreet Slave is the remnant of anointed ones on earth at any given time in human history.

    But I find it interesting that you made the unconscious association they hope every JW will make. Apparently, the Governing Body can convince you to accept them as if they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave while specifically denying that position in their writings (they only claim to represent the Faithful and Discreet Slave and Jesus, like the Pharisees claimed to represent Moses). Further, they can get you to associate a legal publishing corporation (Watchtower Society) with the Faithful and Discreet Slave. I don't doubt that these are inseperable in your mind, but try to separate them. They are three distinct entities, not one and the same.

    The Faithful and Discreet Slave, as a class (if they are a class), were to be appointed over all Christ's belongings. (Matthew 24:45-47) That is, the remnant of the anointed were to have all the authority. What authority does the frail, 75-year-old sister who partakes have over anything among JWs? If the answer is, "She has no authority over anything," in my opinion that should be reason for a long, serious, thoughtful pause.


  • searching4truth

    the bitternes so often expressed here, even mockingly and something i am occassionly guilty of bothers me tremendosly. I also grew up around jw and have a deep love for them and the organization. was a ms a pioneer and a bethelite once. but the truth is it really doesn't add up no matter how much we want it to. and it brings great pain to us all which unfortunately gets masked with bitterness and mockery. read "crissis of conscience" and hang in there it will make you sick but keep searching. Jehovah still loves you and this site will start to comfort you.

  • blindersoff

    Ah! The FDS. Please consider the context carefully and let me know what you think.


    The F&D Slave doctrine is what gives the WT it's control.(My comments in blue)

    *** it-1 p. 805 Faithful and Discreet Slave ***

    When answering the apostles? question concerning his future presence and the conclusion of the existing system of things, Jesus Christ included a parable, or illustration, dealing with a "faithful and discreet slave" and an "evil slave.

    Does a parable or illustration require a fulfillment?

    Even if it does, what about the timing?


    w87 8/1 p. 16 Christ?s Active Leadership Today ***

    5 The modern history of God?s people shows that this time of accounting came in 1918-19

    They were collectively found to be the "slave

    Note this application of Jesus' coming:

    "*** w97 3/1 p. 13 Are You Ready for Jehovah?s Day? ***

    On this account you too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming." (Matthew 24:40-44;-----) Not knowing the exact time of Jesus? coming to execute God?s vengeance tends to keep us vigilant and gives us daily opportunity to prove that we serve Jehovah with unselfish motives.

    Then the context of the illustration:

    (Matthew 24:36-47) 36 "Concerning that day and hour (Jesus? coming to execute God?s vengeance) nobody knows, ------------------42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming.(Jesus? coming to execute God?s vengeance) -----------------------44 On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming. (Jesus? coming to execute God?s vengeance) 45 "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.

    How can verse 46 step out of the context & apply to 1914 / 1919

  • AuldSoul


    Excellent reasoning. However it is easily answered once you realize that in 1918 the Faithful and Discreet Slave who hadn't yet been chosen correctly identified 1914 as the year the world had ended invisibly, and 1925 as the year the ancient worthies would return leading quickly to physical Armageddon. They declared this marvelous hope in a talk series entitled "The World Has Ended—Millions Now Living Will Never Die." (Revelation—Its Grand Climax At Hand! (1988), p. 120, par. 3)

    Unfortunately, many who put faith in that hope left Jehovah when that hope came to nothing. Apparently, they worked themselves up over it, thinking that it was a sure thing. For some reason, they didn't realize that it was possible the world had not ended invisibly in 1914, that the ancient worthies might not be resurrected in 1925, and that Armageddon might not come speedily on the heels of the beginnings of miraculous healings due to commence in 1925. It is so sad when people prove themselves as servants for a date instead of patiently waiting on Jehovah through ever-changing truth and newly redefined hopes for the future.

    [extracts tongue from cheek]

    What sort of an organization blames the people who simply believed its teachings for getting their hopes up?

  • poppers
    look within, have joy and peace within yourself for thats what he has found. But what does that mean? What about doing what God demands?

    Have you asked your dad how he "looks within" and what that means to him? It may seem a hard or confusing thing to do, but is it worth investigating for yourself? Why not start there and leave god's "demands" out of it for now. Perhaps god doesn't demand anything - could you entertain that possibility? Perhaps the "problem" is what has been fed to you about what "god" is and the beliefs foisted upon you about how you "should" relate to your concept of god. Right now you are troubled by a "god" that is confined and limited to what some book says or what some "authority" declares. It takes real courage to investigate what's really true rather than simply accept what someone else says is true.

    Peace and joy are closer to you than you think. In fact, it is thinking that gets in the way of what is inherently yours already - peace, stillness, happiness, and fulfillment. You have to find this for yourself, no one can give it to you on a platter or tied up in a nice neat package and delivered to you in the form of a "holy" book, philosophy, or religion.

  • saki2fifty

    Man, I almost dare not even make an argument with you guys... for I've read lots of your previous posts. Very knowledgable... and deep.

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Dear Saki,

    I totally can appreciate where you are coming from. No one wants to believe this is not the truth. But if it is the truth, it will withstand a examination. I felt I owed it Jehovah to get to the bottom of it. I truely wanted to find proof for 607. I was not looking to leave the organization. I was very content the way things were. But because things didn't seem to add up, like I said in my story, it kept haunting me. I went through the whole knowlege book with a lady who I taught the whole 607 issue to to support all the other teachings. I was in a real quandry, every time I went in service, I was scarred to death I would come acrossed someone who may bring this up to me. What would I do? Lie and defend a lie?? Or would I sheepishly say to the householder, "You are right about 607, but what does it matter?" I knew better. I knew why it would matter. In time I came to the point where I thought, "Who am I serving anyway? A organization, or Jehovah God?" I knew the organization would demand me to support their teaching wether right or wrong. However, eventually my conscience would not allow me to do that. I knew that if I went against my conscience on this it would be a sin for me. How could I knowingly teach a lie and expect to be in his favor. Afterall isn't that what we used to say about people at the door.."They want to have their ears tickled." ," They don't care about the truth.", " They are satisfied and content with the religion they were raised in", " They don't want to examine their faith." In time I began to feel stronger and stronger that I would not deliberatly teach something I knew to be untrue. I knew how much Jehovah hates liars, since Saten is the father of the lie. After I found the 607 date to be wrong, I began to question all the other things that I had always thought to be true. One by one I examined them. I still am researching. I was not easily swayed either. And I admire your "stuborness" as you say, for not easily giving up what you believe to be true. I never took anyones word or explanation as truth. I thoroughly examined all the evidences for my self. One by one it was clear what the facts really are. I really suggest you read the gospel accounts of, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. You will see that only two things were required of those early Christians to have Jehovahs favor. Before Jesus came, the people were burdened down with exhausting laws and regulations, many, added by the Scribes and Pharasees. But when Jesus came he said his load was light. Only two things he required. To have faith and love. When you read the gospel accounts it is so very comforting. And it is very clear. Jesus doesn't have double standards. He doesn't use a different rod to measure with now than he did then. What was the one thing the man dying next to Jesus had that moved Jesus to tell him he would be with him in paradise? It was his faith. Jesus didn't say well, its too bad you never went to any meetings, or never preached. No, he showed faith, and that gained Jesus favor. After Jesus died they tried to bring back many of the laws that Jesus death covered. Remember the circumcision issue?? Anyway, I really believe now that it is alot more simple than I ever believed, and knew before. Faith and love. Posessing these two qualities, would guide your life in the proper way. Jesus's way. When you think about it, by making meetings and preaching a requirement for salvation, you are really saying you have to earn salvation. But salvation is a FREE gift. Otherwise if you had to work for it it would not be free. It is like saying Jesus sacrafice wasn't quite good enough. By having love and faith, it would move you to tell others about Jesus and what his life means for each of us personally. When you see ones miss meetings and are not out in service, what is the first thing you think of? Wow, I hope they get their act together before the end comes! WHY? Because we are taught that you must "earn" your salvation. Faith without works is dead is often used. True faith without LOVE, and the works of love, would nulify your faith. When you start thinking out of the box so to speak, you realise how many "wordly" ones you once shunned for not being part of the organization, really do show love. True many don't. But I believe that when you are a Witness you don't allow yourself to see the love, and the good people do in the name of Jesus and God. True they don't say "Jehovah", but they know his name, many using Yaweh. Now I see all of humanity as my brothers. Many could care less about God and Jesus. Many don't know him..but many do. Does anyone have all the answers? No. But one thing I have come to learn, the Society surely doesn't either. I think bottom line it comes down to those two very important things. And of course they will keep you motivated to have a close relationship with Jehovah and Jesus. You asked me if I was happy. The answer varies from day to day. Am I happy with my decision to leave? YES! Do I feel guilt? NO! But after a lifetime spent believing certain things that I now know are untrue, I find it very sad somtimes. But for the most part I am happy. I am not DF'D, or DA'D. My family back East just recently, last week found out how we feel.. and it pains me to say they have also cut us off. The name calling isn't fun and does make me unhappy. However, being a Christian isn't always easy. Look at what Jesus had to endure. Being called a Blasphemer, the disciples were also called Apostates, yet they remained faithful. I have done nothing wrong. I feel no guilt for standing up for truth. So.. bottom line for me is I MUST worship with Jehovah with Spirit and Truth, otherwise my worship is not acceptable to him. No matter how hard it has been, or will get, my relationship with him and his son is what matters most. I sincerily hope you continue to prove to yourself what the truth really is. Remember, it is not wrong to examine what you believe. And it is not wrong to question. Don't forget the power of prayer. Jehovah will help you and get you through your questions. He will also give you the courage to do the right thing. But don't feel you have to rush into any snap decisions. Take it slow and be thorough. As for us, we don't have any desire to join any other faith. One other thing.. please read the context of the scriptures you are researching. By doing this you will discover the true meaning of the scriptures. You will be amazed as to how much more you will discover. I wish you well.

    Sincerely your friend,

    Lady Liberty

  • searching4truth
    please read the context of the scriptures you are researching. ; By doing this you will discover the true meaning of the scriptures. ; You will be amazed as to how much more you will discover

    try read other bible translations too

  • JWdaughter

    Saki says, "My kids are everything, and I want a sure foundation for them. They are still kids, innocent, and only want whats best and of course, the right path."

    A sure foundation can be critically looked at, pulled apart and put back together again. Right now they love meetings-but if you took them to Sunday School or Hebrew School, they would love it too-if YOU were with them. The thing every child wants is to be with and to please their parents. And don't forget that as you face your own indecision about the organization-because leading them into an unquestioning acceptance of what IS a man made organization-and its teachings-will not make them strong, but will make them weak. If it is firm, you can shake it-you know? And it in NOT a reflection on you if the whole thing wobbles over when pushed a little. If all those who tell you it is truth really believe it, they won't get all defensive/offensive when you ask all the questions you need to ask-whether here online or in your cong. bookstudy!


  • hummingbird92575

    Hi Saki,

    I have just joined this site and am about to hi-tail it out of here. I was raised JW off and on because of my mom's personal problems, but I am SOOOOO happy to be heading down the path of babtism in October at the next local assembly. I thought when I signed on for this site that I might be able to make some friends who are in about the same position spiritually as I am, but all I have seen thus far is apostacy against Jehovah's righteous organization. If these people are disfellowshipped or have separated themselves from the TRUTH, then why must they come here to try to talk to those who are faithful?

    I can tell you why and it is easy to see...especially after reading their posts. Satan is one tricky liar. He will use whatever tactic he can to pull us away from the truth. And this site is seemingly just one more avenue to do just that. It is really sorrowful that these people have lost their faith in Jehovah because of some "thing", whatever that may be, discouraging them. Every person in the world is a HUMAN...capable of making mistakes. JW's are no exception. So if there are ones that these people say discouraged them away from the TRUTH, then those people who did the discouraging are blood-guilty. They will be dealt with in Jehovah's due time.

    As for you and I as new members of this site, I say...Let's get out while we still can. I certainly intend to after this post. Just remember that you are not alone out there and that Jehovah will bless your efforts. HIS love is what keeps me going in this world that is screeching to a halt. Every day bible prophecies are being fulfilled and anyone that doesn't see that is blind. You must believe that if you are still in the truth amidst even your own father's protests. I am sure Jehovah is very proud of you for remaining faithful and standing by your wife and, above all else, for standing by Him.

    I am sorry...I am not usually this forward, but I think that it is my duty to defend Jehovah's principles in the face of adversity. Some of the links offered in this site are appalling when you look at the icon on the upper left of your screen and read that this is supposed to read "Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum..." And NOT Apostacy Forum of EX-JW's...

    I hope that you find the path to babtism. Lean on Jehovah and you will find the courage to come out of your shell...Remember that you are doing the GOOD work of the TRUE God's Kingdom. You are obeying HIS command to teach others what you know to be the TRUTH...Don't let Satan stand in the way of that, dear Brother.

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