A bit reluctant (page 6)

done4good

***Do you go out and find another so called true religion?***

Saki, this is one of the hardest things, (if not THE hardest thing), for someone who is brought up a jw to come to grips with, (including me). It is very difficult to learn to think out of that box. Patience IS required. You have to allow yourself to do research, first. Once you begin to do that, the answer to the above will become self-evident. In short, and I know you cannot fully accept this now, there IS no true religion. Religions are man made, all of them. Always have, always will be. At best, they attempt to provide for some common understanding of ancient holy books, (and yes, I know that is not all). But even though I don't claim to be a "believer" anymore, I know that spirituality comes from within, from doing what you believe to be right, whether that be doing what "God" wants, or otherwise. You cannot do THAT, if all of your decisions in life are based on organizational requirements.

j

saki2fifty

jgnat... thanks for responding. I wish that I could respond to your comments, and even eager to... but that dang work thing is holding me back. Wait.. supervisor just walked in... :)

Its weird to hear familiar terminology...

Went to all the meetings, assemblies, quickbuilds.

and then to hear...

But...
Dismembered

Found myself rereading Lady Liberty's... very much appreicated... but sad.

saki2fifty

You know, I was thinking...

DAD, AM I GONNA BUMP INTO YOU ON THIS THING?

jgnat

... but that dang work thing is holding me back. Wait.. supervisor just walked in... :)

Hey! I think I just heard a funny! Are you starting to feel better? Don't worry about taking your time to reply. The internet is fast. Thinking takes a while.

Dismembered

But... as years past. The promises that were all but guaranteed by the society.

1.The end being just around the corner. (the corner continues to get bigger) Many have died and continue to die. Was not supposed to happen. Now I have to live with the reality that I someday will die. Again! was not supposed to happen. RIGHT?

2. Love is the "identifying mark" of a true Christian. Only JW have it. (It's just not true, some of the most hateful, hypocritical people I ever met were inside that KH.)

3. Cornerstone teachings that were changed under the guise of "New Light" right under our noses 1995 for example: The term "generation" how long it was, and what it stood for totally changed. The separating work of sheep & goats. Gone.

4. "elders" are appointed by divine providence, when in fact most vie for positions of prominence and power. Blatant nepostim.

These are just some of the the things started to get me thinking. Hey those guys are speaking out of both sides of their mouths. If you read some of my prior post you'll find out more.

Make no mistake about it. Many here know, and can speak the WTBS vernacular quite well. I've been stunned by the intellect of ones here. If you stick with it, you're bound to be amazed. You'll also find that these people that post here were really into it, and know/knew their stuff.

Dismembered

saki2fifty

Well, just thought I'd browse around a bit during lunch and I've found this site to be very informative. I picked a topic, the topic of 607BCE, which im sure everyone is tired of. After reading a simple comment from one of the posters to this board (attached below), he mentions that this topic has been covered in 1000+ pages... over and over again, which I've seen in the short time being browsing. After going through that thread, it appears that JW's have their stance, and the ex-JW's have their stance on the matter... all of which has not been resolved... as noted below.

So, a quick question. Can you honestly say that you have "learned the truth" about the non-truth of the 607bce issue when even both sides cannot prove their point?

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/default.html
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/117647/1.ashx

VM44 Re: For those not sick to death of talking about this...607 BCE

Post 2409 of 2436
since 01-Jul-01

The topic of 607 vs 587 has become ridiculous!
Why? Because just here at JWD there are about a THOUSAND pages concerning this topic...and the discussion still goes on!
Can this question ever be answered once and for all?
--VM44

mrsjones5

So, a quick question. Can you honestly say that you have "learned the truth" about the non-truth of the 607bce issue when even both sides cannot prove their point?

Actually 607 has been proven to be incorrect. Read on.

Josie

TD

Greetings Saki,

I'm another of the UBM's here (UnBelieving Mates) I personally like JW's. My wife is JW. One of my good friends is JW and they're both wonderful people. I participate here because for better or for worse, the JW's are part of my life and likely always will be.

I agree with your thought that someone in my position would likely never fully comprehend what is going on in your head right now. (I do try really hard though) I suspect that the reverse may also be true to some extent. I've struggled again and again to wrap my mind around the JW view of their own importance and never quite understood why or how JW's accept it.

As you know, JW's are taught that they are performing a vital life saving work as proclaimers of God's kingdom, while simultaneously having "a share" in the "Vindication of Jehovah's name" and the settlement of the issue of "Universal sovereignty." --That's quite a mouthful.

These may seem like simple, straightforward concepts to you, but for an outsider these are extremely esoteric doctrines that take a considerable amount of effort to understand. (And for some of us, are still incomprehensible....) I've read many articles on JW's where the author or authors misrepresented JW doctrine(s) simply because they did not understand them. Maybe you've noticed this as well.

The fact is that 99.999% of the general population has absolutely no idea what the "Universal issue" is or why God's "name" needs to be vindicated or that Christ's Kingdom was invisibly "set up" in 1914 and the "Nations" lease on power was at that time invisibly cancelled by the invisible king and consequently all people are now demonstrating whether they are "For" or "Against" this Kingdom. (Another mouthful)

Despite their view of themselves, JW's have not done what they seem to think they have done. (i.e. Made these "issues" known to mankind) This is one thing that really stands out to me, as an outsider and makes the notion that virtually the entire prophetic content of the Bible, especially the book of Revelation is written to, for and about JW's all the more absurd.

Jgnat has suggest trying to untangle your perception of God from JW organization and doctrine. I think she's given you good advice.

AuldSoul

saki2fifty,

The 607 BC dichotomy can best be summed up as follows:

(1) JWs know they have no secular proof for choosing 607 BC.

(2) Secular proofs don't establish an alternate date with absolute certainty (and we don't usually even attempt to do so).

(3) Secular proofs rule out, with absolute certainty, all possible dates from "In the beginning" to 588 BC, and all dates from 585 BC to present.

(4) Therefore, secular proof rules out, with absolute certainty, 607 BC as a possible date.

(5) JWs attempt to assert that the absence of an absolutely certain alternate date automatically means 607 BC is a possible date.

(6) I could effectively use the same argument to reason that 312 AD is a possible alternate date; the same secular evidences that rule out that possible date are used to rule out 607 BC and all other excluded possibilities.

The presence of two possible years in which Solomon's Temple might have been destroyed does not negate the evidence that other years cannot be possible years for its destruction.

The question has been finally answered on every thread discussing it, from dozens of different angles all leading to the same conclusion: 607 BC can be absolutely excluded as a possible date.

The JW response is consistent, if nothing else. They demand to either know when it was destroyed with absolute certainty or be allowed to stick 20 unaccounted for years into the equation. The utter lunacy of such a position is likely readily apparent to you.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

johnny cip

saki; you asked how or does the wt lie and decieve. i'll make it easy for you. but you have to do your own research. which is not easy. let's start with the "rev grand climax is at hand book" that the jw's will be studing for a 4th time soon. the basic point that the book bring out is that jesus, did a 3-1/2 year inspection of all religions. from 1914-1918. and choose the wt to be his earthly gov't,rep's, fds etc. that's pretty much the whole book in a nutshell. now here's the hard part, that no jw i have ever met can defend. go back and read as much old wt. book printed up till 1919. that you can find. then ask your self . did jesus choose these people in brooklyn. at that time? it's a simple and honest question every jw's should ask . to be sure the wt is not LYING TODAY, ABOUT 1914. i'm sure if you spent about 10 hours on the internet , and looked up their CRAZY TEACHING FROM THIS TIME. YOUR HAIR WILL FALL OUT. i'VE BEEN STUDING THIS STUFF FOR 8 YEARS. it never stops to amaze me , how LOW THE WT WILL GO TO LIE. it's just something you have to see with your own EYES. once you see it , you will not be able to read one page in the latest . watchtower mag. with out picking out a dozen lies. i'm not going to go into detail here. 2 reasons . first you need to learn for yourself. 2nd. i hate to type. this research is the whole KEY , TO THE FACT THAT THE WTS. IS FULL OF $HIT. JOHN

A bit reluctant

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