Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN. (page 39)

thirdwitness

Auldsoul: You see, ANY organization can write whatever they want about the UN, but they can't do so and remain an NGO Associate to the UN/DPI. Your conversation seems to indicate you believe an Associate can write whatever they want about the UN without repurcussion. That is not true.

Apparently Greg, an officer of the UN/DPI does not agree with you Auldsoul.

Question: Some friends of mine are concerned over the Watchtower not saying nice things about the UN. Is this a problem?

Greg: You can criticize the UN. But, we would take offence if they were using the UN name to raise money or they were saying they were a UN organization when they really are not.

Notice that his statement is made after he answers that the WT is an NGO.

cabasilas

Must NGOs support the UN in all their endeavors? NOOOOOOO. Not according to Greg. They can even criticize them. And their support can be in certain areas only. Hmmmmm. It seems this quote might apply after all: The organization shall undertake to support the work of the United Nations and to promote knowledge of its principles and activities, in accordance with its own aims and purposes and the nature and scope of its competence and activities.”

I just have a few minutes before heading off to work. I'm not going to conceded the point you're making but want to ask this. IF this argument is valid (and I don't agree it is) then all the stuff you wrote attacking Mr Paul Hoeffel is wrong and needs to be changed on your website. I have found out he's now with the Mexico City office of the UN. You need to apologize to him for the false things you've said about him. He can be contacted here: http://www.un.org/aroundworld/unics/directory/mexico.htm

cabasilas

Squeezing in time for one more comment.

Yes, an NGO can criticize the UN. The world allows criticisms. But, where does it explicitly state that they can reject key elements of the principles of the UN Charter? Could, perhaps, a neo-Nazi NGO join? Or the KKK?

Why did the WT Society allow itself to become a publicity agent for the UN DPI? Why didn't any of those publicity articles they wrote explain that they viewed the UN as the "disgusting thing" and that it would soon destroy false religion? Would that have perhaps caused a problem with their re-certification?

looking_glass

3rd, it is all about the appearance isn't it. When I was a full time pioneer, I decided to go to college. The only college I could afford which would allow me to continue to pioneer that was close by was a Jesuit school. I kept it a secret because I did not want to get flack from people in the hall, but my mother has a big mouth and started telling everyone and soon it got out. I was dragged in the back on more then one occasion by the BOE and was told that not only would I be removed but could possibly be DF'd because THE APPEARANCE was one that gave people the impression that I was supporting false religion. In the end the CO and DO go involved with the whole debate. I was never told it was a conscious (sp?) matter, I was never told it was okay. I was told that they would have to seriously consider what to do w/ me as a woman who was not heeding the scriptural advice being given by my spiritual head. By the time the whole thing was appealed, I was done with school, so it was a non-issue.

So we can argue the scriptural reasons why the WTBTS' association with the UN is wrong all we want. But to use the words of their own people, it is the appearance. If I was hounded for YEARS over the issue of something that gave the appearance of something improper, then why does the WTBTS get to be above it all and do what they want regardless of the appearance of it all. Library card or not, if I am not allowed to step into a church for a funeral w/o being counseled then why does the WTBTS get to what it pleases absent its own rules.

Do as I say and not as I do seems to fit very well here does it not. People who make the rules for everyone else but those same does do not apply to them. These are men who live in ivory towers, who get to sit around all day and ponder what additional rules to put people under. If I recall properly, Christ lead by example not the "I am god's son so you have to do as I tell you". So to me this religion is made up of hypocrites with arbitrary rules.

AuldSoul

thirdwitness,

I am right.

(KJV) Revelation 17:4
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.

The words translated "disgusting" and "unclean" by the WTS are both used in this verse. I didn't cite this one just for kicks.

You still have not honored what you said you would do.

AuldSoul

What a dope! Of course the WTS is an NGO, thirdwitness! They have always been an NGO and are currently an NGO. So is every non-profit organization that is not a governmental organization. Whatever could your point possibly be?

NGO means non-governmental organization. If they aren't a governmental organization, they are a non-governmental organization.

It is like saying I am caucasian. I repeat, DUH!!!

He didn't say it would be okay for an Associated NGO, i.e. an NGO which has obtained a credentialed Associate membership to the UN/DPI, to promote negative viewpoints of the UN and its activities. Such an organization would find their association with the UN/DPI revoked and they would be forcibly disassociated.

As I said (correctly) Greg answered your question, but you assumed things about your questions and his answers that were incorrect. You didn't ask him about what you are claiming to have found out, and that he didn't answer what you claim he answered.

The WTS is an NGO and has been since 1879. The term NGO wasn't invented yet as an adjective to describe the nature of organizations, but they have always fit the current definition of "NGO" and have therefore always been an NGO.

Are you really as stupid as you pretend? You still haven't answered my questions.

AuldSoul

thirdwitness

Auldsoul said: Verbal support for the UN and its activities is required to remain an Associate with the UN/DPI,

Greg, an officer at the UN/DPI totally disagrees with you. Not only did he outrightly say an NGO with the DPI can criticize the UN but he shows that he was more concerned about an NGO with the DPI claiming to be with the UN and making money because of that claim than an NGO criticizing the UN.

Isolda Oca of the DPI also disagrees with you. After an apostate JW had a conversation with her he admitted this:

The gist of the conversation was...

1) It is not unusual for organizations that are in disagreements with the United Nations to become an NGO with them.

Now remember, it is not a JW who is giving the gist of the conversation. It is one of your fellow apostates who denounces the WTS.

And by the way, I believe I am answering your questions.

thirdwitness

Auldsoul said: NGO means non-governmental organization. If they aren't a governmental organization, they are a non-governmental organization.

It is like saying I am caucasian. I repeat, DUH!!!

I took for granted that everyone knew what you just said. I left out part of the conversation because I did not think it was important to the point. After all, if you are talking to the DPI officer about the WTS being an NGO Im pretty sure that everyone knows that when he says they are an NGO he is talking about an NGO to the DPI. But now that you are making a big deal about it here is part of the conversation I left out. It is in red.

When asked: Is the Watchtower a NGO

Greg answered: Yes

Question: Is there a unique number to identify them?

Greg: No, there are over 1,500 of them.

Question: For how long has the Watchtower been a NGO

Greg: Since 1991

Then the conversation continues as I have previously quoted.

thirdwitness

Lookingglass, you are comparing religion to government. They are different. We are to have nothing to do with religion. We are in subjection to governments. Why is this comparison continually made over and over again when it does not apply? I hope this is the last time that I have to repeat this. Please let it be so.

done4good

We are in subjection to governments.

Where does the concept of "subjection" come into play with the WT's CHOICE to become an NGO?

j

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

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