And how many times must I repeat that the U.N. is not a government.
And how many times must I repeat that the U.N. is not a government.
And guess what else. It is the DPI that decides whether an NGO meets the criteria. The WTS does not write and say, "Hey we will agree to meet your criteria and support the UN in all its endeavors if you make us an NGO." No, it is the other way around. An NGO sends in their information and then the DPI makes a determination if the NGO meets their criteria:
Criteria for association with DPI
The DPI after receiving the information apparently believed that the WTS supported their charter in that the WTS is for freedom of religion and human rights and are against discrimination etc. It has nothing to do with the WT agreeing to meet the criteria. The DPI looks at the application and determines that. There is no signing anything by the NGO saying we agree to meet the following criteria. If the DPI decides that the WTS meets the criteria so be it. Apparently the criteria does not require total support in every way imaginable as apostates would like us to believe. There are two reasons why we know this:
1. The DPI accepted the WTS as an NGO and the WTS does not support every endeavor that the UN takes part in.
2. The UN officers have stated that NGOs can criticize the UN and can disagree with the UN.
The only thing the WTS agreed to is what is stated by the DPI as responsibilities of the NGO.
Here it is:
Associated NGOs through their information programmes are expected to
Please note that association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status.
None of the responsibilities of an NGO with the DPI compromises our Bible principles. It does not say that all information disseminated must be good things only about the UN. Oleg and the other woman officer of the DPI confirms this saying that NGOs can criticize the UN and that some NGOs who dissagree with the UN have become associated with the DPI.
It is clearer than ever that the WTS did nothing wrong and could even continue to be an NGO with the DPI without compromising Bible principles if they so chose to do so and if the DPI determined that the WTS met the criteria.
If I, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, were an owner of a big non profit organization that wrote articles about human rights, religious freedom, and the future of mankind, I would have no second thoughts whatsoever about becoming an NGO with the DPI in order to access all their facilities if they determined that we met the criteria.
Question: Did the WTS agree to support the UN?
Answer: NO, the DPI made a determination, after looking at their information, that the WTS supported the UN. Rather than there determination being based on whether or not the WT would criticize them or disagree with them it was based on the fact that the WTS supports human rights, liberties, and non-discrimination. Since the WTS supports these ideals of the UN charter then the DPI determined that the WTS met the criteria.
Of course the DPI also determined that the WTS was non-profit and had the means to disseminate information thus they met the criteria.
thirdwitness is desperately trying to show that the Watchtower Society did not violate its own long-established precepts condemning the United Nations as a tool of Satan. He wants to do this to spare himself the embarassment of being a member of a grossly hypocritical and self-serving cult.
Let's cut to the chase on what the Watchtower Society agreed to by becoming an Associated NGO.
Some important points first: "NGO" (Non-Governmental Organization) is really a generic term -- no surprise here -- for any and all organizations that are not governments. The U.N. narrows the definition considerably in describing non-governmental organizations that might form an official relationship with the U.N. Department of Public Information (DPI): "A non-governmental organization (NGO) is a not-for-profit, voluntary citizens’ group, which is organized on a local, national or international level to address issues in support of the public good." ( http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/criteria.html ). It is in this narrow sense that the U.N. and its personnel virtually always use the capitalized term "Non-Governmental Organization" or the acronym "NGO". An "Associated NGO" is an NGO that has met certain U.N. criteria, such as agreeing to promote its charter, and has applied for and received this "Associated" status. By receiving this status, an Associated NGO agrees to become, in effect, a promoter of the U.N. in general, all articles of its charter, and to advertise its agenda and goals. The U.N. considers these Associated NGO's partners ( http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/about-ngo-assoc.html ):
About NGO Association with the UN
Non-governmental organizations have been partners of the Department of Public Information (DPI) since its establishment in 1947. Official relationships between DPI and NGOs date back to 1968. The Economic and Social Council in its resolution 1297 called on DPI to associate NGOs with effective information programmes in place and thus disseminate information about issues on the UN’s agenda and the work of the Organization. Through associated NGOs DPI seeks to reach people around the world and help them better understand the work and aims of the United Nations.
In informal speech, most people -- including U.N. personnel -- tend to neglect the "Associated" part of "Associated NGO" and simply refer to Assocated NGOs as "NGOs". While this is technically incorrect, in the context of a particular conversation it's usually not a problem to understand what the speaker means.
It almost goes without saying that an organization whose primary view of the U.N. is negative cannot promote U.N. goals.
It also almost goes without saying that it is correct to say that any NGO that formally associates with the U.N. Department of Public Information (DPI) has joined itself to the U.N. by virtue of its association. This is not "joining the U.N.", as this is limited to governments by the U.N. charter. The difference in wording is crucial in these discussions, because thirdwitness is deliberately taking advantage of the ambiguity of language to deny that the Watchtower Society joined itself in any sense to the U.N.
With the introductory material out of the way, here is the bottom line: In describing the responsibilities of Associated NGOs, the U.N.'s website section "Criteria for association with DPI" ( http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/criteria.html ) states:
The NGO must support and respect the principles of the Charter of the UN and have a clear mission statement with those principles.
That's the bottom line, ladies and gentlemen -- (1) supporting and respecting the principles of the Charter of the UN and, (2) having a clear mission statement with those principles.
Thus, any NGO that formally associates itself with the U.N. DPI is agreeing that it supports and respects the U.N. charter, and that its own "mission statement" agrees with that charter.
What principles are part of the U.N. charter? Below, I quote some of these principles. Readers will note that they are completely in line with the Watchtower Society's religious doctrine since about 1919 that the League of Nations, and its successor the United Nations, are instruments of Satan that attempt to substitute a manmade political organization for the "Kingom of God established in heaven in 1914" ( http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/index.html ):
Charter of the United Nations
We the Peoples of the United Nations . . . United for a Better World
WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small . . .
AND FOR THESE ENDS
. . .
to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security
. . .
to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples
The Purposes of the United Nations are:
To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
The Security Council shall consist of fifteen Members of the United Nations. The Republic of China, France, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America shall be permanent members of the Security Council. The General Assembly shall elect ten other Members of the United Nations to be non-permanent members of the Security Council, due regard being specially paid, in the first instance to the contribution of Members of the United Nations to the maintenance of international peace and security and to the other purposes of the Organization, and also to equitable geographical distribution.
In order to ensure prompt and effective action by the United Nations, its Members confer on the Security Council primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security, and agree that in carrying out its duties under this responsibility the Security Council acts on their behalf.
Should the Security Council consider that measures provided for in Article 41 would be inadequate or have proved to be inadequate, it may take such action by air, sea, or land forces as may be necessary to maintain or restore international peace and security. Such action may include demonstrations, blockade, and other operations by air, sea, or land forces of Members of the United Nations.
When the Security Council has decided to use force it shall, before calling upon a Member not represented on it to provide armed forces in fulfilment of the obligations assumed under Article 43, invite that Member, if the Member so desires, to participate in the decisions of the Security Council concerning the employment of contingents of that Member's armed forces.
In order to enable the United Nations to take urgent military measures, Members shall hold immediately available national air-force contingents for combined international enforcement action. The strength and degree of readiness of these contingents and plans for their combined action shall be determined within the limits laid down in the special agreement or agreements referred to in Article 43, by the Security Council with the assistance of the Military Staff Committee.
Plans for the application of armed force shall be made by the Security Council with the assistance of the Military Staff Committee.
There shall be established a Military Staff Committee to advise and assist the Security Council on all questions relating to the Security Council's military requirements for the maintenance of international peace and security, the employment and command of forces placed at its disposal, the regulation of armaments, and possible disarmament.The Military Staff Committee shall consist of the Chiefs of Staff of the permanent members of the Security Council or their representatives. Any Member of the United Nations not permanently represented on the Committee shall be invited by the Committee to be associated with it when the efficient discharge of the Committee's responsibilities requires the participation of that Member in its work.The Military Staff Committee shall be responsible under the Security Council for the strategic direction of any armed forces placed at the disposal of the Security Council. Questions relating to the command of such forces shall be worked out subsequently.The Military Staff Committee, with the authorization of the Security Council and after consultation with appropriate regional agencies, may establish regional sub-committees.
The action required to carry out the decisions of the Security Council for the maintenance of international peace and security shall be taken by all the Members of the United Nations or by some of them, as the Security Council may determine.Such decisions shall be carried out by the Members of the United Nations directly and through their action in the appropriate international agencies of which they are members.
The Members of the United Nations shall join in affording mutual assistance in carrying out the measures decided upon by the Security Council.
So, what the Watchtower Society did, by formally becoming an Associated NGO, was to agree to respect and promote all of the above Charter provisions, including those that directly fly in the face of its claim that only "God's Kingdom" has the right to organize mankind into a worldwide, unified whole and to solve mankind's problems, including the one of "peace and security". This is its hypocrisy. All of thirdwitness' lies, misrepresentations and attempts to minimize the Watchtower Society's hypocrisy do nothing to negate the above simple facts.
AlanF, Your reasoning was blown out of the water just before you posted it.
Notice from the DPI comes this:
Associated NGOs undergo a specifically designed evaluation and review process, which is two-fold.
What does this mean? Does the NGO write the DPI and say, "We can no longer sign an agreement saying that we support the ideals of the UN."? NO, the DPI committee determines whether they believe the NGO meets the criteria or not. If the NGO supports human rights and liberties and non-discrimination then the committee will probably determine that this is good enough to meet the criteria.
Just face it. Apostates have misled you. The WTS never agreed to support the UN or its charter or even its ideals. The DPI decided and determined that the WTS met the criteria whatever it was at the time.
You're way off base here 3W. Not only does the WTS consider the UN "the disgusting thing that stands in an elevated place", a recent WT article pointed out that the "elevated" position it stands in will be in the form of REPLACEMENT of false religion at the beginning of the GT. If the WT goes as far as to consdier the UN a "replacement" for false religion, then that implies IT IS a "religion" of sorts, as far as the WT is concerned. Please don't try to use the excuse that somehow the UN is not currently in that status, so it dosen't matter. This is indeed how the WT views the UN. It is not THE POST OFFICE, FEMA, part of the SCHOOL SYSTEM, the JUDICIAL SYSTEM, WELFARE or SECTION 8. I said it before. You are intellectually dishonest.
It is funny how when apostates are faced with the facts staring them plainly in the face they still will try to make some off the wall argument to avoid admitting the truth.
The United Nations seem quite a friendly bunch to me. What makes them so disgusting? Why would Jehovah hate an Organisation set up purely to help people?
And NO WAY do they have the power to ban world religion...
Another typical cop out post, huh 3W. Why don't you try addressing my above argument. Maybe because you can't???