by booker-t 82 Replies latest jw friends
To reply to your original post:
I agree with you. For a very brief time between leaving jw's and accepting that I'm athiest, I was ready to run back to the Catholic church and thought they "did have it right after all."
Truly, I was just looking for reasons to prove the jw's were god-worshipping in the wrong way, and felt I needed to be around people doing it differently in order to keep my mind reassured that they were wrong.
Since then, I've just relaxed and enjoyed being me, now.
XJW,
my reply was to this statment...
It was not the believers who turned this thread into a debate, it was the non believers. This topic was about relying too much on religion itself - not a debate on chrisitanity.
And as I posted before “it goes both ways” with which I mean Christians/atheists/whatever. None of the so-called “unbelievers” made a statement like the one above. But if I had read a statement like “It was not the unbelievers who turned this thread into a debate, it was the believers. This topic was about relying too much on religion itself - not a debate on chrisitanity.” I reassure you I would have replied in the same way, with a quote of ‘a’ turning point. I was replying to the above statement and not critical of your style. So I directly pointed to evidence that make me disagree with blaming the “unbelievers” for starting debates. One of the things that turned me off the JWD, when I first found this site some years ago, was the aggressive manner Christians were replied to. But now I see it goes both ways. It is not only the “unbelievers” who start heated debates.
Anyone is free to say what they want (keeping to the JWD guidelines). And if I believe a Christian is more suiting to give help someone in search, I am happy to refer them to “believers”…
Hallo JW,
I think you have a great sense of humour!
I am not Christian, but some posters are, like lovlylil and others. I recommend you reply to her post and surly you can enjoy an intelligent exchange of issues. Please ignore the ones you find illogical.
All the best,
freetosee
I've noticed that XJW4EVER likes to declare victory and leave on some threads. Good for you lad. It helps preserve that superior image of yourself that is so fragile it doesn't really stand up to debate. You're kind of an aloof, drive-by shooter. Best wishes to you, you've been through a lot and I certainly don't begrudge you whatever works. Hey, we're XJW brothers anyway!.
XJW4EVR
So, it's simple, prove to me that Jesus' body is in a tomb somewhere, and I'll join you in your disdain for religion. Now don't tell me that Jesus never existed, because there is more proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed than there is for the existence of Alexander the Great, or Julius Ceasar.
There you have it, startingover, in a nutshell the manner to disprove Christianity. Show me the bones of Jesus!
Well how can I argue against that. It would be hard to pull that off for someone that died 100 years ago. I 'm pretty sure if they one day discovered a box containing bones and labeled Jesus, King of the Jews, you would laugh it off as a fake. I guess it looks like you'll be a Christian 4evr.
BTW, does any of your proof exist outside the bible? If so I'd like to see it.
I've noticed that XJW4EVER likes to declare victory and leave on some threads. Good for you lad. It helps preserve that superior image of yourself that is so fragile it doesn't really stand up to debate. You're kind of an aloof, drive-by shooter. Best wishes to you, you've been through a lot and I certainly don't begrudge you whatever works. Hey, we're XJW brothers anyway!.
Scratching my head wondering, "What in THE HELL are you talking about?"
Or better yet, the best you have is an adhominem?
XJW4EVRSo, it's simple, prove to me that Jesus' body is in a tomb somewhere, and I'll join you in your disdain for religion. Now don't tell me that Jesus never existed, because there is more proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed than there is for the existence of Alexander the Great, or Julius Ceasar.
There you have it, startingover, in a nutshell the manner to disprove Christianity. Show me the bones of Jesus!
Well how can I argue against that. It would be hard to pull that off for someone that died 100 years ago. I 'm pretty sure if they one day discovered a box containing bones and labeled Jesus, King of the Jews you would laugh it off as a fake. I guess it looks like you'll be a Christian 4evr.
This statement is the epitomy of arrogance and condesension. In case you missed it, I have posted my story. Granted I has not the best behaved J-Dub, but I knew what I believed. That belief system was jettisoned as soon as I determined, by the evidence, that it was false. So the fact that I have jettisoned one belief system due to the facts, kind of makes the rest of your post mute.
BTW, does any of your proof exist outside the bible? If so I'd like to see it.
I have seen enough evidence from archeology, which collaborates what is written in the NT & OT to give me confidence in the Bible as a whole.
Josephus, while admitted, finally as an interpoloation, does make statements that are consistent with what the Gospels claim about Jesus. The fact that the Mishnas and the Talmuds go out of their way to degradate Jesus, rather than say that his body was produced on such-and-such a date. There are also the historians such as Pliny, Tacitus, etc. While their testimony does not prove the existence of Jesus per se, they do attest to the presense of Christians, and how they viewed Jesus. This view is consistent with the Gospels, Acts & Epistles in the NT.
If you want specific sitations you will have to wait as I do not have access to my notes at this point in time.
So I have given some proofs, and I can give you others, but the question is if you saw enough proof to support the fact the Jesus lived, died, was buried, and raised from the dead, would you place your trust in him?
"Believing" is passive.
Living is active.
Living a life with purpose is a clue to the mechanism inside the person living that life.
Who do you hurt/help? How much do you improve/devolve? What in the final analysis was the sum total of your life?
Did you count for anything other than a passive "belief"?
Here lies the body of __________. He had hope. He believed. He didn't do much other than ring doorbells and count magazine subscriptions.
Nice epitaph. Pathetic legacy.
In answer to the question which began this topic: When will people stop relying on churches and religions for happiness" I'd say this:
When people learn to use their mind rationally they will be able to create a purpose for existing other than the idle hope for a better life someday at the hands of a superhero.
Hi XJW,
I fully agree with what you say here...
All I am here to do is talk about a common bond that we all have. That is being a JW.
and I am genuinly happy you found a faith that you are convinced of being from God. All of us have much in common and we can work together to help those finding their way out of this cult. I look forward to talk with and work with you based on this common ground.
freetoess
Terry,
Well said!
XJW
I read your biography, man could I relate to alot of that. I too am the only child of an "organization" man. I went through, acted out and felt much the same way as you, you put it to words better than I ever could have. Our paths changed though when I was actually made an MS.
Thank you, Starting Over. I labored to put my story into words that would be readable, captivating & entertaining. It was also very theraputic for me. I don't think it is a completed work. I need time to think through what I wish to add regarding issues that have happened since the point I left off at.
