When will people "stop" relying on "churches and religions" for happiness?

by booker-t 82 Replies latest jw friends

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  lovelylil

  Kate,

  I am with you. I know you are like me and we never tell people what they should believe but rather try to give an opinion from our perspective only.

  If we were to start telling the non-believers that we checked the evidence and found that Jesus did exist and harshly put them down, they would not appreciate it one bit.

  How did this post that began with talking about Church institutions suddenly become a Christian bashing thread? We were not here to argue over the Jesus issue again. I have only been on this site for a couple of months and every single thread almost gets turned around to the same Q. And the ones doing it are not the believers but the non-believers.

  If we were to do this constantly, we would be told we are on a soapbox, yet some do it to us. I am a christian but I can still join in on threads without thinking I have a right to use it to tell non-believers off. And tell them they are wrong for their beliefs. I have asked this before but no one seems to give me an answer:

  To the non believers: if we choose to believe, what business is that of yours? what affect does this have on you so that you feel you are going to constantly correct us?

  Do you think I go around all day worried about the fact that you are an un-believer?

  It is really getting old and tired, fast.

  But Kate bless you, and keep your spirit. I have a very painful auto-immune disease too. (((hugs))). Keep well and let this stuff roll off your back. That is what I usually try to do, but I have completely had it today.

  Now go ahead and attack me personally but leave poor, loving Kate alone.
• 

  Apostate Kate

  Thank you Lillian. I'm sorry you have auto immune problems too. May we both have more good days than bad.

  I am at a place in my life where I don't often take anything personally. I am not easily offended and I would hate to ever hurt or insult anyone here. I appreciate the support here. Your posts are always informative and gentle in spirit. {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}
• 

  Gregor

  Lovelylil

  I said "It works for a lot of people. Not me."

  I don't see that as a terribly harsh attack on believers. Why are you so thin skinned and defensive? For what it's worth, I really don't care what you believe. In fact, I hope it continues to work for you. There are a whole lot worse things to live by than simple vanilla Christianity.

  Peace Lil.

  I'm sure we could be friends
• 

  lovelylil

  Gregor,

  I wasn't referring to you in my post. And I know we can be friends, Lilly
• 

  startingover

  Lil,

  For me one of the things that sets me off is when believers make statements as if they were fact. Look back on your posts, you don't say I believe Jesus did this or that, you make a statements as if it were fact, because I'm pretty sure they are fact to you, but in reality it is based on faith, is that not so?

  Why is it that believers seem to complain that someone is picking on them when they call them out on that. Has anyone ever seen a thread where non-believers have done this? If there is one I would really like to see it.

  OK, I'm ready, hit me back
• 

  free2beme

  People are not relying on religion for happiness, they are relying on hope. Take hope away from someone and have nothing to offer in exchange that is anything more then your own false hope, is something I would never do to another person "AGAIN!"
• 

  lovelylil

  startingover,

  you hit the nail right on the head and identified the problematic wall that each side keeps hitting up against.

  You said "to you (meaning believers) it is fact" - this is true. We are stating our beliefs as though they are fact to us. To non-believers our views are not fact. That is, not fact to them. You have it exactly right!

  The only suggestion I can come up with to avoid the same old arguements is this: let each person resolve in his/her own mind what they choose to believe. And let each one not force his/her view on the other.

  Does this sound reasonable to you? if not, do you have a better suggestion?

  The reason I am asking is that niether side will give up what is fact to them. This is impossible as we humans make our own realities based upon what we personally believe to be true.
• 

  Gregor

  Lil says ...And let each one not force his/her view on the other.

  If I could 'force' my will or views on anyone through a discussion forum like this I would be a rich man. "Send me your debit card number and password! Do it now!"

  The mere fact that you perceive a discussion about religion (on a quasi-religous discussion site for crying out loud) as having an opposing view 'forced' on you is telling of itself. Sounds like your faith has all the strength of a soapbubble in a sandstorm.
• 

  XJW4EVR

  XJW4EVR

  Do you think it's possible that your whole belief structure may be wrong? This is not meant to be condescending in any way but a serious question. Maybe this needs to be on another thread, as I have been meaning to ask believers this for a long time.

  Yes, it is possible that what I have come to believe could be wrong. In fact, Christianity is the only religion that gives you a manner in which to disprove it. It says that if Jesus was not resurrected from the dead, then we might as well eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. So the manner in which to disprove Christianity is simple. produce a body that can be conclusively proven as being that of Jesus son of Joseph from Nazareth in Gallilee. Once that body is shown me, then I will know that evrything I have lived for was false, and I'll join the atheists.

  Until then, do you really think I and those that believe like me want to be ridiculed by likes of you and the rest of you psuedo-intellectuals here? Do you think we like having the name of our God used as a swear word? Having to constantly fight to keep some semblance of sanity in our families, as you and the rest of try to undermine the values that we want to instill in our families? Do you think we like being told how narrow-minded and bigoted we are, when you and the likes of you do the exact same thing that you accuse us of, namely being a bunch of intolerant bigots that shove your belief systems down our throats? Do you think that people would choose this type of life unless they have become convinced that Jesus still changes lives?

  So, it's simple, prove to me that Jesus' body is in a tomb somewhere, and I'll join you in your disdain for religion. Now don't tell me that Jesus never existed, because there is more proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed than there is for the existence of Alexander the Great, or Julius Ceasar.

  There you have it, startingover, in a nutshell the manner to disprove Christianity. Show me the bones of Jesus!
• 

  XJW4EVR

  I think booker-t’s thread was not meant to start a Christian vs. non-Christian debate. I get the impression you are forcing this into a debate of that nature. I have read some Christian posters in the past complaining about atheists jumping in and starting heated debates, but this surly goes both ways. There is nothing wrong in debating this issue, many threads and posters do, so there is lots of opportunity to do so on other threads.

  No, you are incorrect. Booker made some strong and blunt statements, and I simple responded in kind. Sadly, it appears that there are some posters that don't like that from Christians. I guess we should just know our place, cast our eyes downward, and never get into the fray. It was not my intention to start a row, and then leave it, and I certainly have not done that. I will defend my views, and I will do so directly and bluntly. If that offends people then so be it, but I am not going sit by and allow people to make logiacally inconsistent statements with point it aout and calling them to task for it.

  You saying “Think before you answer!” reminds me more of a warning or threat than an encouragement. It is surly not the usual end-line I have been reading so far. Or is it an implication that I was not thoughtful in my posting. I can’t help but feel when reading your posting on this thread that you are overreacting to comments not completely in line with your thinking, that you are easily offended when it comes to your faith in Jesus. I don’t believe in Jesus or the bible, however if you find happiness in your faith I am happy for you and any xjw who finally experience “real” Christian life.

  First, you have misquoted me. I did not use an exclamion point. I mdae a declarative. Therefore the rest of wht you wrote was you projecting your emotions on to what I wrote. I wanted you to think about what you were going to type.

  Secondly you presume far too much. You are again incorrect in your assumption that I am easily offended in my Chrisitianty. I lurked for quite a while before I posted on this board. I have had numerous opportunities to make statements, but I chose not to. So I am not quite as "easily offended" as you "feel."

  Whether or not you believe in Jesus or the Bible is between you and God. All I am here to do is talk about a common bond that we all have. That is being a JW. But what I don't think is right is the constant belittling and berate by the atheists, agnostics & skeptics on this board. The hypocrisy of such, especially when it comes to proselytizing their humanist gospel. So no I don't think that I am easlily offended. I think I have a pretty thick skin. After all I have been put through my paces in the real world. In the real world I have been called every vile term that you could possibly think of just because I have the audacity to preach what I believe, and to also live out what I believe. Either way it's all well and good, and it's getting late.