by booker-t 82 Replies latest jw friends
How many christains here believe God is going to roast us unbelievers in a hell fire for eternity? I know many that do. That really turns me off to their God and worship. Why would Jesus allow his followers to teach that? How can you tell a TRUE christain from a FALSE christain believer?
Ken P.
Gregor,
I wish you would read the prior posts more carefully. You do this all the time and say things that are not true.
I was NOT referring to you in anyway. I was referring to the ones who go onto every thread and tell us christians how stupid we are to believe in something and someone that is not true. Please stop thinking that your opinion has any affect on me, it does not.
Even those who continue to criticize me are not going to change my view, I was just making a point that they use every thread to bash us Christians.
Again - I WAS NOT REFERRING TO YOU IN ANYWAY.
Have a good day Gregor!
How many christains here believe God is going to roast us unbelievers in a hell fire for eternity? I know many that do. That really turns me off to their God and worship.
I am probably in the minority (however, I am still within the orthodox framework) on this, but I do not believe that hell is a place of eternal torment through fire. The bible uses figurative language when it speaks of hell. It is describe as a place of eternal fire, but also utter darkness. Seems to me that this is a contradiction, if taken literally. Therefore, I look at terms like eternal fire & utter darkness as an analogy to communicate what total seperation from God might be like (since no one has been there and returned to tell about it).
Another way to explain hell might be that while on earth all humans are recipients of God's common grace, eg, he makes it rain on the righteous & unrighteuous, the sun rises & sets, etc. Hell is total removal from God's grace, total seperation from God. Basically, He is giving unregenerate humanity exactly what they want, an atheistic eternity. After all we would God want to populate heaven with people that have given Him the finger?
What is more, since heaven has degrees of reward, I think it follows that hell would have degrees punishment. I don't think a garden variety pagan will be punished the same as Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pot, etc. So I really don't get your turn off.
Why would Jesus allow his followers to teach that?
Umm, I don't know? Maybe, because he taught it?
How can you tell a TRUE christain from a FALSE christain believer?I don't know. Jesus reffered to this dilemma when he spoke about the wheat and the tares. He said the the wheat would not be know until the day of harvest. By implication a false and a true Christian could stand side by side until the final judgement. The issue at hand is not being able to tell a true Christian from a false one, but are you a true Christian or a false one.
Organised religions could have been a better and more efficient way to promote the spiritual culture of man but they end up being exploited and abused for the benefit of some members in leading positions.
I prefer to only loosely associate with one of the more responsible mainstream religions.
For me one of the things that sets me off is when believers make statements as if they were fact.
You have taken all that you have analyzed and then believe what you have analyzed as fact, correct? Otherwise you wouldn't be so adamant about believing it, correct?
We have done the same. My experiences are just as true to me. I am not mentally ill, psychotic, stupid, deceieved, ignorant or uneducated. My faith and my hope are real, they have substance and there is physical evidence in my life to support the reality of my faith.
So, therefore, what I say about my life and relationship with God is fact.
Respectfully~Kate
,"Another way to explain hell might be that while on earth all humans are recipients of God's common grace, eg, he makes it rain on the righteous & unrighteuous, the sun rises & sets, etc.
He also makes the tornadoes, hurricanes, volcanos, earthquakes etc fall on the righteous and unrighteous so we all get his anger as well as his grace, that is if he is doing anything here on earth.
Ken P.
He also makes the tornadoes, hurricanes, volcanos, earthquakes etc fall on the righteous and unrighteous so we all get his anger as well as his grace, that is if he is doing anything here on earth.
Yes, and His grace is shown when millions of dollars from Christians and generally benevolant folks are funneled to the victims of those disasters. After the Southeast Asian trunamis on Boxing Day two years ago, I heard a Jewish Rabbi say that God's hand was more apparent in the relief efforts than in the disaster that precipitated those efforts.
Don't think I'm against a person believing in Jesus and prayer, my wife does this and is a good person, but I have seen things happen that she believes was an answer to prayer, as an example her daughter had a growth in her breast and she prayed for her and when she went back to the doctor it was gone, but why doesn't it work now, she has another growth and it isn't going away? Why doesn't God listen now?
Ken P.
XJW,
I really appreciated a lot of your comments on this thread. It was not the believers who turned this thread into a debate, it was the non believers. This topic was about relying too much on religion itself - not a debate on chrisitanity.
I am so glad that you brought out the point that that many are not getting. I want to bring it out again and highlight it:
Not all Christians believe in a fiery hell - I want to add to this: Not all of us feel you have to be Christian or will die
There are varying views within Christianity and we should not lump all the Christians under one belief system. It is usally the legalistic Christian religions that teach these false views.
There are varying views within Christianity and we should not lump all the Christians under one belief system. It is usally the legalistic Christian religions that teach these false views.
Ok, My PERSONAL Point of View... This is why I cannot believe in a god/religion as fact... I THINK that facts are consistent... religion (christianity) is very inconsistent from church to church..
