Australian Nazi regime?

by Norm 99 Replies latest jw friends

JanH

bboy,
Kent, while in Norway I felt alot of prejudice against pakistani immigrants. In the US the prejudice is against mexicans. Every country seems to have a select 'undesirable' immigrant population.
That is true. And people from Latin American descent may also notice some hostility due to the influx of Chilean immigrants some years ago, and the inevitable conflicts.
This is a common problem all countries struggle with. It is very visible in western countries because we have generally taken action against racism, exposed it, and do discuss it (e.g. the Japanese, do not).
It is of course the case that many of the immigrants do not have "legitimate reasons" for coming, but want access to work (and sometimes the welfare systems) of richer nations. It is not hard to understand both sides of the issue. But I still feel Norwegians have a legitimate right to defend their resources, and in this I have no problems understanding the Australian position.
However, it's often too easy to reject legitimate concerns over nationalities as "racism". Some time back Kadra, a young girl of Somalian descent, went to the Islamic "spiritual leaders" and told them her parents demanded her to go back to Somalia for circumcition (female genital mutilation, more accurately). Publicly, those leaders said they were against it. She had a hidden camera and microphone. On the recording you could see those men encourage her to follow her parents' wishes.
Was the outcry of condemnation against the muslem leaders and their followers an expression of "racism"? Hardly, since the same people also praised the girl for her courage. To strongly criticize a perverted practice like genital mutilation is not, as some muslems and their spineless supporters on the far left (some, not all!) assert, an expression of cultural chauvinism. A girl from Somalia has the same human rights and civil rights and obligations under Norwegian law as anyone else here, and so does those Muslamic leaders and her parents who, I actually mean, should be kicked out of the country first chance.
Kadra still lives at a secret address somewhere in Norway.
- Jan
--
"Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets
drloss

Australia is the dryest continent on earth and simply could not sustain the population density of the Netherlands. Having said that, we can (and do) accept more immigrants (including refugees).
View the Australian Immigration Minister's letter outlining official policy at http://www.immi.gov.au/package/letter.htm
Also check the following Fact Sheet
http://www.immi.gov.au/facts/46protect.htm
The UNHCR site states "Australia is also among the top three resettlement countries in the world, with an annual quota of 4,000 persons. This component is in addition to a planned intake of 2,000 asylum-seekers on-shore, and a further 6,000 persons who may be eligible for humanitarian non-refugee visas. There is no limit to the number of refugees who may be recognised on-shore." Check it out for yourself at http://www.unhcr.ch/world/asia/australi.htm That adds up to 12,000 plus, not 4,000 as previously stated.
Racism is a problem the world over but the problem in Australia is not as bad as the drama queens appear to be indicating.
In 1998/99 European immigrants constituted less than 25% of immigrants to Australia. http://www.immi.gov.au/facts/02key-1.htm
Abaddon

drloss; Woo, I'm a drama queen! Thank you Pricilla (Queen of the desert, gedit?).
Thanks for the swipe, but;
1/ Who said that Australia could have the same population as the Netherlands? Is it your idea to put words in my mouth? Is that indicative of the strength of your arguement, that you distort what I say? What I said was that Australia taking 4,000 refugees a year was PATHETIC. I stand by that. The figures I quoted were all culled from the URL below, and are like for like provisional figures, not quotas (which may or may not be filled). Please remember immigrants and refugees are DIFFERENT.
http://www.unhcr.ch/statist/2000provisional/tab02.pdf
Also, the emptiness of the statement "There is no limit to the number of refugees who may be recognised on-shore" can be seen by the vote-buying desperateness of the Oz Government to stop them getting to shore. Thank you for proving MY point with YOUR quote.
2/ As for racism, well, Australia is up there right behind Austria for actually voting Nationalists (the polite word for racist bigots) into real positions of power. To it's shame, a couple of Nationalists were elected into low powered local positions in England recently, but compare the response of the National Media in those three countries to Nationalists in power. In England people were by-and-large DISGUSTED.
Tell you what, you do the hear no evil see no evil and speak a load of rubbish routine, if it makes you happy, woo hoo you.
You seem to be thinking people are saying 'Oz is racist/mean to refugees, we're not'. That would be dellusional. Racism is rife, worldwide, loads of countries, including England, try to reduce the numbers of refugees, but unless we start saying x is better than y it will stay that way.
Norm

Hello Ozzie,
You said:
Of course while we've been squabbling these past 24 hours, we have diverted our attention from the real villains (the WTS).
Back to the main game, boys!
Cheers,
Ozzie
Well, some of us are perfectly capable of holding at least a couple of thoughts in our heads at the same time. I myself has been doing a lot to reveal the true nature of the WTS while I have been engaging in this debate about ethics.
The debate has been quite interesting and has revealed that some ex-Witnesses still has a long way to go before they are able to grasp concept's like human rights, humanism and common decency in general. Particularly the religious ones seem to be lagging behind in their old fashioned ideas of us and them, and have substituted the WT org with the Australian state.
Norm
outnfree

Ok, maybe it's my Viking blood, but I hope rather it's my highly refined sense of justice when I come down on the side of the Norwegians [and certain enlightened Australians].
It seems to me that because the Australian government requested the Tampa to take aboard these refugees the Australian government has an obligation to take these refugees ashore and process them.
It has [b]NOTHING[b] to do with immigration and everything to do with humanitarian aide. (As Abaddon has kindly pointed out, immigration and refugee policies are two different animals.)
Why bother asking the Norwegian ship to save these people if the Australian government were not interested in actually saving these people?
Australia is definitely getting an international black eye from its handling of this situation.
The Norwegian captain and his crew are being punished for doing a good deed, taking aboard many more people than logistically fit to handle, and the subsequent boarding of the ship by Australian SAS troops was QUITE heavy-handed and morally repugnant.
I'm just waiting now for the inevitable attack on this American's lack of understanding of Australian politics. However, to me the issue is NOT one of politics (although I understand it may be being played out that way in Oz) but one of common decency. Or lack thereof.
Sorely disappointed,
outnfree
Kent

Hi Dan;
Kent, while in Norway I felt alot of prejudice against pakistani immigrants. In the US the prejudice is against mexicans. Every country seems to have a select 'undesirable' immigrant population.

Racism is something you will find everywhere, Norway included. There will always be those who deliberately are playing of people’s fear of the unknown, and as soon as soon crackpot Ayatollah makes a weird move in Iran, these people are screaming about “holy war”, “fundamentalists”, and “terrorists”.
Unfortunately lots of people actually believe in propaganda like that, and we do have lots of idiots in Norway as well as you do in the rest of the world. The general cry is “they take our jobs” – while facts often are these people take jobs Norwegians don’t want!
I know of examples – and I believe anyone do, no matter where in the world we are – where real good educated people can’t get a job they are educated for. The only reason is because their color is the wrong color, or rather – OFTEN it is. Language is used as an excuse. These people don’t speak our language well enough. But I guess anyone can learn if they want.
So, I don’t say there is no discrimination in Norway – of course it is. You’ll find that all over, but frankly, I guess this discrimination isn’t THAT bad in Norway, all things considered. However, this isn’t about racism, really. It’s about common decency, about human rights, about helping those lying down.
The actions of the Aussie government have made people all over the world look down under in shock – not believing what they see and hear. All arguments about other places in the world is uninteresting, and nobody cares if some people gave a lollipop to an Aborigine child 2 years ago. This is about an emergency – and facts are the Aussie government so far has handled this situation in a way which is sickening, disgusting, atrocious and inhuman.
As for stopping the discussion, and keep to WTS material only, I agree with Norm. I find it highly interesting to see how people think, what are their views on human rights, and how much they really love their fellow man.
That can be extremely useful later on. And - just as Norm - I can have more than one thought in my head at the same time.
Yakki Da
Kent
The most significant difference between Prime Minister John Howard and Hitler, is the fact that Hitler is dead.
Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://watchtower.observer.org
drloss

Abaddon
1/ No one said Australia could have the same population as the Netherlands. What you said was "have a look at a map of population densities along the coastal strip of Australia and compare it to, oh, virtually anywhere else in the damn world." I simply pointed out Australia does not have the same population carrying capacity as the Netherlands and did not distort what you said.
What I meant to convey was that despite limited carrying capacity, Australia continues to accept additional immigrants (including refugees). I was not intending to compare the immigration records of the two countries.
However, since you raise the issue, end of 1999 Australia had a total of 72,210 refugees & asylum-seekers with 10,200 arrivals during the year ( http://www.unhcr.ch/statist/99profiles/aus.pdf ) and Netherlands had a total of 139,200 refugees with 9,500 arrivals during the year ( http://www.unhcr.ch/statist/99profiles/nld.pdf )
I was not challenging your opinion to which you are entitled, just the number you quoted. I take your point about quotas. The latest data indicates 7,953 refugees/asylum seekers settled in Australia in 2000.
I fully appreciate not all immigrants are refugees.
Umm. That was the UNHCR I quoted and there is no support for your 'argument' in that.
2/Ho hum. How you do misconstrue. I wasn't saying Australia was innocent of racism, just that it isn't as bad as some were making out. As far as "Nationalists" goes, to whom do you refer? Australia came to Europe twice to help out and I don't think we've changed too much since then.
As far as hear/see no evil is concerned, as stated in another post, I've written to the Prime Minister and Immigration Minister expressing my disapproval of the Australian Governments actions. What have you done? If you think accuracy is rubbish, tough. Woo hoo yourself. Go cry in your Heineken.
Clearly you haven't read my posts with understanding. I have responded to exagerrations about Australia's racism, I have denounced Australia's actions in relation to the Tampa incident but pointed out inaccuracies in relation to Australia's overall refugee record. If you want to see delusion, go look in a mirror.
I agree, racism is rife worldwide but making outrageous inaccurate statements won't improve the situation. That kind of froth and bubble, bluff and bluster argument is what the borg is so good at. It doesn't wash with me.
Jang

New Zealand came to the defense of Australia when they said that Australia should not be the country bearing the brunt of the refugee problem, including what to do with this boat load of people.
They said that this is an international problem and it should be the international community who should be taking responsibility for helping them find refuge, not just one country.
I agree with this because Australia has done all it can this last 25 years in taking in wave after wave of boat people ...... we truly cannot handle them all ..... our population is small and so are our resources for supporting populated areas.
In the last few years we have supported people from Bosnai and Serbia and given them refuge at our expense, paying for their transport both ways and supporting them while they were here. We have done the same for East Timor .....
We already have a large contingent of Afghanistan refugees here who have waited their turn at the refugee camps and there are more who will come that way who are being processed right now ......
the boat people had enough money to live well until they were processed also ....
Sure, this has caused a ruccus, but it has also drawn the world's attention to the problem we are facing in handling these waved of boat people .....
Not only are they coming in from the west, but we get boatloads from the east almost every month too ..... The chinese have been coming in droves!
We are a truly multi-cultural country and despite those who would like a white australia - most of us don't. We enjoy the diversity and we have seen migrants blend in over the last 6o years or so.
The majority of us are 1st or 2nd generation Australians. I am a first generation as is my husband. We are the children of migrants.
My son married the daughter of an Italian migrant who was a refugee after WW2.
So let's get back to the real issue!
This load of boat people are not the only ones that have to be settled. There are already a couple of boatloads on Christmas Island waiting to be transported to Australia. And there are about 3-4 more boatloads about ready to land.
What do we do with them all ...... of should the international community take a little responsibility and take some of them too.
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
Zep

Jang
What do we do with them all ...... of should the international community take a little responsibility and take some of them too.
The International community does take responsibility. Do you think we are the only ones with refugees coming to our country? They go to Europe and all over Jan.
Pakistan has 2 million Afghani refugees...Iran has 1.5Million. We have a boat load of 460 on our doorstep. Heeellloooooo!
Your ignorant!
Jang

Zep wrote:
The International community does take responsibility. Do you think we are the only ones with refugees coming to our country? They go to Europe and all over Jan.
Pakistan has 2 million Afghani refugees...Iran has 1.5Million. We have a boat load of 460 on our doorstep. Heeellloooooo!
Your ignorant!
Actually I am not ignorant Zep. I am more than well aware of how many there are waiting for help and I know that a lot of Afghani refugees have already come here legally.
It isn't just this load of 460 ..... it is the other 3-4 boats that are due to arive this coming week and the ones coming the following week ......
Somehow the message must get back to them that they will not be taken in if they come this way .....
Maybe we may have to do what Hong Kong ended up doing to boat people ..... they let them land, fed them a good meal and then took them to the airport, put them on a plane and sent them back without even hearing their story. They would turn around a boat load within 24 hours. The message got back and the boats stopped .....
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

Australian Nazi regime?

Share this