Do you still believe?

by Chimene 154 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Gretchen956

    I just pointed my higher power meter in another direction. A much better fit! I believe Jesus existed as a person as I believe Robin Hood existed as a person and King Arthur. However the legends were embellished so much as to be fantastical. As for the Bible, its a collection of fables, for the most part. If you read a lot of the first half of it, you find why a lot of people reject that angry bearded white man god it portrays. Having said that, I do respect Jesus for being a man of love and peace, the same way as I admire Ghandi for the same qualities. Again, just not my path.


  • AlmostAtheist

    >>I guess because of the fact that the bible has been around for thousands of years, and the JW's were only created about 125 years ago give or take?

    There's definitely a difference between leaving the Watchtower and leaving God. One is patently false -- you can disprove the Watchtower as god's representative in a few hours of research. Disproving God's existence is a whole other matter, impossible in fact.

    But I wonder if the JW's lack of emphasis on faith has something to do with so many ex-JW's becoming atheist. They present religion as something logical, that SHOULD make sense. So you get used to proving your beliefs. Once they're disproved, you start casting about for something else "provable". But faith isn't provable, it's more "felt" than seen. If you're walking around with a "prove it to me" mindset, you're not likely to find any religion (or any god) all that appealing.

    Dave of the "prove it to me" class

  • Chimene

    But, they have found the ARK? so I thought?

    I looked up alot of biblical artifacts that have been found, in fact, on this web site

    Even the brim stone from Sodom Gamora? But there have been shows on the History Chanell to where archeologists have major findings. OH! and check out this recent article in the Washington Times:

    Artifacts with links to Bible unearthed

    By Jay Bushinsky
    January 2, 2006

    JERUSALEM -- Israeli archaeologists, screening tons of rubble scooped out of this ancient city's sacred Temple Mount, have discovered hundreds of artifacts and coins, as well as jewelry, some with biblical links dating back more than three millennia.
    Most of the stones and earth originally were taken to an organic garbage dump in nearby Bethany, the New Testament town known in Arabic as Al-Azariya, and could not be retrieved. But a substantial portion was diverted to the Valley of Kidron, mentioned in the Old Testament and located just outside the Old City's massive walls.
    This ambitious archaeological project, known as the Temple Mount Antiquities Operation, was started in November 2004, when Muslims excavated the sector north of Solomon's Stables to build the massive underground Marwani Mosque. Its second season, now under way, will last until February.
    The Waqf, or Muslim officials who administer the site -- known to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary -- helped the Israelis arrange the transfer.
    Among the unusual finds extracted by Bar-Ilan University's Gabriel Barkai and his team of students and volunteers is a "bulla," or seal impression, thought to be used to close cloth sacks of silver.
    "It bears the name Gedalyahu Ben Immer Ha-Cohen, suggesting that the owner may have been a brother of Pashur Ben Immer, described in the Bible [Jeremiah 20:1] as a priest and temple official," Mr. Barkai said.
    That verse says: "Pashur, the son of Immer the priest, who was also chief governor in the House of the Lord, heard that Jeremiah prophesied these things."
    The team's discoveries span 10,000 years "and belong to all the historical periods that transpired in Jerusalem," Mr. Barkai said.
    One of the finds is a stone weight equivalent to four shekels (an ancient Hebrew measure, about 2 ounces), marked with words written in the ancient Hebrew alphabet.
    The site is not considered an archaeological dig. The workers use a technique called "wet sifting," similar to the way prospectors pan for gold.
    Mr. Barkai's team examines every particle, using large wire filters to rinse each one with cold water while looking for valuable objects.
    Some finds reflect the Temple Mount's unique and dramatic history. An example of this is an iron arrowhead with a shaft used by the Roman legions during the siege of the Second Hebrew Temple 2,000 years ago.

  • Chimene

    I would love to hear a point from Little Toe if your out there?

  • AlmostAtheist

    I don't think the ark has been found, though there are reports of its having been seen. Always note the sources on stuff like this. If it was there, you can bet there'd be legitimate researchers leaping up the mountainside to study it. But there aren't.

    The Bible describes some historical events, there's no doubt archaeology would find some remnants from the time. Imagine a thousand years from now. Someone finds an old warship hulk, buried in the muck. The fact that Tom Clancy referred to it in one of his novels wouldn't make anyone believe it was inpsired. It might show that he accurately reported on the things around him, but no more than that.

    The Bible tells some tales that on their face sound very much like fairy tales. The ark is a good example. What are the chances in real life that of the 100,000+ people on the earth, the ONLY righteous people would be a man, the woman he just happened to marry, all three of their sons, and the women they just happened to marry? Weren't the girls raised by righteous parents, didn't they have any righteous siblings? Possible, but highly implausible.

    Remember Balaam and the talking donkey? There's nothing untoward about the donkey talking -- God could make a donkey talk. But note Balaam's reaction; he strikes up a conversation with it! What would YOU do if your dog started talking? Wouldn't you at least say, "WTF? You can talk?!?!" or run away screaming, or something? Again, possible, but unlikely.

    Lot's daughters getting him drunk and raping him in order to produce children. Lot's own wife being executed for "looking back", the couple in the New Testament that were executed for lying about a real estate transaction.

    The Bible's just chock full o' that sort of nuttiness.


  • Big Dog
    Big Dog


    I see you are wrangling with these godless athiests as I have done in the past.

    The rational part of my being has a pretty hard time swallowing the whole Bible/God/Church concept. When you step back and look at it, it can be pretty hard to rationalize.

    But then there is a part of me that seems to feel that spark of the divine, that just "knows" there is something beyond what we understand, that sees it in nature, art, and the galaxy.

    For me I see it as one of those we won't know until we get there deals, to ridicule a believer or a non-believer is pointless, because I sure don't know.

  • Chimene

    Hey Big Dog, I think that I feel much the same way you do.But, I hope everyone doesn't think I'm ridiculing anyone.

    I respect everyone's right to believe what ever they want or don't want. I was just really curious what drove people that far as to not believe period. I certainly don't believe in the WTS, JW's and that whole clan, but I do believe in God, or I want to anyway

  • cyd0099

    In Jehovah as presented in the WT literature, no...

    That being said, I think there is a crative force out there, but is not really concerned with what goes on here among humans.

  • greendawn

    I am a believer but I think many ppl were put off god for life due to the oppresive nature of the god propagated by the WTS, they understandably got to hate a god that was so severe exacting and savage. Obviously that's a creation of the WTS and not at all like the real God.

  • Chimene
    I am a believer but I think many ppl were put off god for life due to the oppresive nature of the god propagated by the WTS, they understandably got to hate a god that was so severe exacting and savage. Obviously that's a creation of the WTS and not at all like the real God.

    Exactly, the whole thing is really sad to me

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